We're In Our 'Right' Minds #3

[Heather]

Old Thread (http://www.fanbolt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27107&page=1&pp=15)

Do you think we need a President who actually believes what they say? Do you think Bill Clinton was a disgrace to this country, and the worst thing to happen since the likes of LBJ? Do you despise the hypocricy of the Liberal Democrats? Do you think Environmentalists should go hug a tree somewhere, and just shut up? Do you think Cindy Sheehan, and her cohorts at Moveon.org, deserve to be institutionalized? Do you think Hillary and her whole "it takes a village" mindset is detrimental to this country? Do you like having politicians with morals, and a strong sense of character, who arent afraid to say what they feel is right? Do you think Iraq is justified, and Saddam Hussein deserved to die? Do you support military spending, and the soldiers who risk their lives everyday for our freedoms?

This thread is just for Conservatives....those who respect the traditions this nation was founded on, are proud of our nations heritage, respect our President, our soldiers, and understand why we are actually in Iraq, apart from the conspiracy theories constantly thrown our way.

So, if you're a Conservative, jump right in. If you're a liberal, this isnt the place for you....ie...Go Away.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So...where were we, guys?

[Jon]

All I can say is someone give me a "HECK YES!" ;) Anyways, so where is good 'ol "I never had sexual relations..." anyways?

[Ol'blueyes]

I dig the new name. very creative.

[Heather]

Yeah, it is. Kuddos to Andrea, for coming up with it. :)

[Ol'blueyes]

My AP History teacher totally compared Lincoln and Bush today, I was like," right on."

But seriously, Lincoln had more than half the country despising him, but today he is viewed as one of our greatest presidents.

[Heather]

Which is why I always said that history will look favorably upon Bush. And I know Im right about that, gosh darnit!!!

Whereas Clinton's history will be all about Monica, and scandals. Thats why I laugh when I hear him talk about his legacy. :rolleyes:

[Faith]

It's a shame that people take his personal life out on his presidency skills.

Anyhuw, what do you guys think of this phone bugging thing? I haven't heard much about it, just a few bits on the news...

[Heather]

Well, I think since we live in a post 9/11 world, its justified.

Clinton using it on the other hand, there was no reason in the 90s for that.

And its not just his personal life, Gem. That man sold military secrets to China. That is part of his legacy. And lets not forget Vince Foster.

[Faith]

Hev, that's fine :) You are the one that said Whereas Clinton's history will be all about Monica, and I just don't think that part of his life has anything to do with his presidency. I'm not defending him, I have no feelings towards him one way or the other :)

[Heather]

Whereas Clinton's history will be all about Monica, and scandals.
By scandals, I was referring to Whitewater, Travelgate, Chinagate...the list goes on and on.

[Faith]

But you still mentioned Monica :)

I just don't gel with that ;)

[Heather]

To each their own, Gem. :)

I just think that the leader of this country has a certain image to maintain, and it doesnt include getting a blow job by an intern in the oval office.

[Faith]

Nah, because that's his personal life... everyone has moments of being human, I dont go around calling Bush a druggy because of one life choice he made... It's like your saying it would be okay as long as he didnt get caught.

[Heather]

But thats different, because it was decades before he was even governor, let alone President. I dont bring up Clinton's drug use, because he wasnt President at the time, and it isnt relevant to his Presidency.

[Faith]

No no, it's still a desicion he made as a person. If you follow that line that it's all about image, then Bush should never have been elected to begin with :)

[Heather]

But I dont follow that line, you do. And the same could be said for Clinton, since he also used drugs before he was in politics.

I look at how they conduct themselves while in office, because that is what history will remember. And I dont approve of the way Clinton conducted himself in the White House. Why do you think morality became such a big issue in the 2000 election? Because after eight years of scandal after scandal, the American people had had enough. (and I dont just mean Monica, when I say scandal).

[Faith]

I just think that the leader of this country has a certain image to maintain,

No, that is the approach you take, as shown above. When I said 'if you take that line,' I meant the one about the image.

And again, I agree, if it was all about that then Clinton's drug use could be brought up to... thats my point, it shouldn't be. and neither should Monica.

On another note, I have a question. NOT AN ATTACK. A question. All the Bush supporters that post in here seem to be die hard, through and through, no matter what he does. I don't get that - I love Tony Blair but I think he has made some bad ass mistakes. I was just wondering what it would take for you to ever disagree with Bush.

[Heather]

I said they have an image to maintain. Which is true, because they represent the nation to the world. That being said, I dont think something that happened decades before they were elected is relevant to the Presidency.

What you do, and how you conduct yourself when President, does.

WHen you use your position to get sex, break the law, violate the trust of the American people, and it ends in your impeachment, yes, I have a problem with that.

[Faith]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then :)



On another note, I have a question. NOT AN ATTACK. A question. All the Bush supporters that post in here seem to be die hard, through and through, no matter what he does. I don't get that - I love Tony Blair but I think he has made some bad ass mistakes. I was just wondering what it would take for you to ever disagree with Bush.

[Andrea]

There is also a huge difference between Bush's past struggles with alcohol addiction and Clinton's past drug use. Bush has publicly admitted these struggles, repented, and gone to great lengths to recover from that terrible disease - something that is very admirable. Clinton's exact admittance of his drug use was: "I experimented with marijuana a time or two, and I didn't like it, and I did not inhale." I'm not sure even Clintonphiles believe him. You can't grant redemption for someone who doesn't believe they did anything wrong.

[Heather]

To answer your question, Gem. I do disagree with some things, like his spending, and his take on immigration. But that doesnt mean I dont support him wholeheartidly, because I am 100% behind the majority of his agenda.

There is also a huge difference between Bush's past struggles with alcohol addiction and Clinton's past drug use. Bush has publicly admitted these struggles, repented, and gone to great lengths to recover from that terrible disease - something that is very admirable. Clinton's exact admittance of his drug use was: "I experimented with marijuana a time or two, and I didn't like it, and I did not inhale." I'm not sure even Clintonphiles believe him. You can't grant redemption for someone who doesn't believe they did anything wrong.

Exactly right, Andrea. Bush fought against alcohol, and overcame it. He doesnt gloss over his past mistakes, but learned from them. How can you learn from something when you dont even admit you did anything wrong.

The one thing from Clinton's past, that I have always taken exception to, is how he protested the US and Vietnam from Britain. That just doesnt sit well with me. Especially considering he just did the same thing in the Middle East recently.

[Andrea]

How can you learn from something when you dont even admit you did anything wrongITA with this.

Regarding the way he has apparently cuckolded his wife over and over, I don't understand the liberals' disconnect between Clinton's inability to make soundly moral and ethical judgments in his personal life and his potential ability to make soundly moral, ethical judgments in his professional life. How could they not be related? Hillary Clinton believes her husband has/had a sex addiction. Anyone who has any kind of life-consuming addiction in that way knows how much it takes over your whole life, how it affects ALL aspects of your waking moments. How does it not relate to his professional competence? I really don't understand that.

And putting all that aside, how does that not reek of the sheerest hypocrisy from liberals, who have held the struggles of Bush's *KIDS* (and even neices and nephews!) against him in the past?

Also, I thought it was fairly indicative of how far liberal Clinton supporters were willing to go in that there was nary a peep from the radical feminists about how sexist and hateful toward all the women in his life Clinton has been. And nary a peep from the Christian liberals from many minority churches about how incredulous they must've been about Clinton's claims to being a devout born-again Christian.

[*gwen*~*grover*]

honestly, i couldnt care less if the president delved into drugs or alcohol, or women, as long as it doesnt affect his political decisions... which i dont think it really has for either president...
there are other, more important reasons that i disagree with clinton and bush.

[Ol'blueyes]

On another note, I have a question. NOT AN ATTACK. A question. All the Bush supporters that post in here seem to be die hard, through and through, no matter what he does. I don't get that - I love Tony Blair but I think he has made some bad ass mistakes. I was just wondering what it would take for you to ever disagree with Bush.


I have disagreed with him, especially on the whole gay marriage issue, but other than that, I support him and his administration. My country hasn't been attacked since 9/11 and I think one of the most amazing speeches I have heard was when he spoke on top of the rubble at ground zero.

[Andrea]

I'm a right-leaning libertarian. I have disagreed with Bush on quite a lot of things, including same-sex marriage, the PATRIOT act, No Child Left Behind, and the Faith-based initiative, among many things. However, with the exception of same-sex marriages (of which at least 1 out of 3 Republicans agrees with me anyway) these are policy-based differences, generally speaking, whereas I have strong and almost categorical *ideological* differences with the left.

I dunno if that made sense though. =)

[Heather]

It made perfect sense, Andrea. :)

[Faith]

honestly, i couldnt care less if the president delved into drugs or alcohol, or women, as long as it doesnt affect his political decisions... which i dont think it really has for either president...


Exactly :)

The Monica thing shouldn't be raised against him as a president... maybe if she had influenced him politically, like, she'd told him to go to war and he had, then it would matter, but as it is it's a seperate issue. Personally, I don't care what Tony and Cherie get up to in their spare time... ;)

[amberdawn]

I'm a right-leaning libertarian. I have disagreed with Bush on quite a lot of things, including same-sex marriage, the PATRIOT act, No Child Left Behind, and the Faith-based initiative, among many things. However, with the exception of same-sex marriages (of which at least 1 out of 3 Republicans agrees with me anyway) these are policy-based differences, generally speaking, whereas I have strong and almost categorical *ideological* differences with the left.

I dunno if that made sense though. =)

Makes sense to me. :)

[Heather]

Thought it was time to revive this thread.

[Lorren]

That was a long vacation for this thread!

Do you have to like the president or be a Republican to post here?

I tend to be a fan of the Constitution party for the most part, but they don't have too many candidates, so I usually just end up voting for whoever makes the most sense. Last couple of elections that has been primarily Republican, although I voted constitution party for the last presidential election.

I'm a strict-constructionist fan of small government and paying off the deficit... debt isn't good for personal finance and it isn't good for government either, IMO.

[Heather]

You dont have to be a Republican, or Bush fan to post here. Im kind of mad at Bush, right now to be honest...lol.

This thread is like a haven for those who fall on the right, politically.

So, post away, Lorren. :)

[tawnda]

Well... this is just crazy... Forget Bill, forget Bush... I don't really like any of the choices for President this time, but I know that Hillary has proved by her own actions and decisions that she is definatly NOT the person I want in charge... I'm terrified that people will look at HER and forget what she tried to do as First Lady... There are too many people in this country who are fixated on Female, Black, Hispanic, etc... Please don't stand by and let our country be so narrow minded as to elect someone who would never be elected if not for the fact that NOT electing them seems like discrimination!

[Heather]

Did anyone else feel outrage over the newest Supreme Court ruling?

Personally, I think Scalia's opinion nailed the truth of the matter.

[Taminar]

I don't like the Bush Administration, and I didn't like the Clinton Administration. I tend to be fairly conservative with a few liberal leanings. Unfortunately, none of today's politicians seem to have any common sense. They are all too extreme.

[ky2here]

I'm certainly ready for a change. I would love to see 8 years of Democrats in control. How could we mess it up nearly as bad as the incompetent neocons?

[Heather]

Incompetent neocons? Gee...thats nice.

As opposed to the Democrats who are single handedly running our economy into the ground? You want to know what life with a Democratic President and Congress is like?

Ask anyone who lives in Michigan.

[ky2here]

We're about to find out - hallelujah!

[Taminar]

I'm not sure the biggest problem is either party, per se. It's the party system. Instead of just voting the party line and playing games, we need leaders that will use common sense do what is best for the country and all the people who live here (at least all the people who live here legally).

[Heather]

I think I need to remind people that this is the Conservative thread, where Conservative can come and talk politics, without being assaulted by liberals, stated in the first post.

Do you think we need a President who actually believes what they say? Do you think Bill Clinton was a disgrace to this country, and the worst thing to happen since the likes of LBJ? Do you despise the hypocricy of the Liberal Democrats? Do you think Environmentalists should go hug a tree somewhere, and just shut up? Do you think Cindy Sheehan, and her cohorts at Moveon.org, deserve to be institutionalized? Do you think Hillary and her whole "it takes a village" mindset is detrimental to this country? Do you like having politicians with morals, and a strong sense of character, who arent afraid to say what they feel is right? Do you think Iraq is justified, and Saddam Hussein deserved to die? Do you support military spending, and the soldiers who risk their lives everyday for our freedoms?

This thread is just for Conservatives....those who respect the traditions this nation was founded on, are proud of our nations heritage, respect our President, our soldiers, and understand why we are actually in Iraq, apart from the conspiracy theories constantly thrown our way.

So, if you're a Conservative, jump right in. If you're a liberal, this isnt the place for you....ie...Go Away.


The liberals have their own thread, which can be found here (http://www.fanbolt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27106&page=7).

[Captain oats 13]

I didn't even know there was Liberals thread! Thanks, Heather! :)

[Heather]

You're welcome. :)

Conservatives...post away!!!

I'll start. The idea of Obama being the next President TERRIFIES me. I was actually SAD when Hillary lost.

Not that McCain is much better...

...and not to go all conspiracy theory on you, but I truly believe that the Conservative primary process was seriously tainted and manipulated by liberals.

[Jon]

...and not to go all conspiracy theory on you, but I truly believe that the Conservative primary process was seriously tainted and manipulated by liberals.

That's what the liberals are saying we did to them in Florida and Michigan......

Anyways, I really don't think Obama will win. When it comes down to it, being a great public speaker is one thing, being a great leader is another. Not that I think McCain will be a great leader, I have my doubts. But I can say I think he'll be a better leader than Obama. That's all I need to know.

[OTH man]

Honestly, I can't even tell you if Obama is going to win or not.. I don't have a grip on the nations feelings, see, I'm stuck in Obama-Land where every indecision he makes is for some reason genius.
This state disgusts me politically.

[Heather]

I was bored tonight, and wandered across an old political thread, and there was one post in there that had me cheering. It was from an old conservative poster, Dan, who read it on www.right-thoughts.us

Enjoy!!!

Dear American Left,

I know why Bush won. I know why you lost. No, not just lost…were rejected. I know exactly why, and we’ll get to that in a minute.

First, though, just let me say this: If you think that spewing hate and invective on me now is going to make your life improve in any way whatsoever, you are a bigger group of fools than anyone imagined. If you think calling me more names is going to get you what you want in this country, you are not just acting foolish, you are delusional and maybe your hatred is more than just a little self-oriented. The reason I say “I” here instead of “we” or “The GOP” is because I want you to understand something so basic, so fundamental that I am ashamed for you that I have to spell it out.

I am the Republican Party.

Oh, I may not be a majority of the party yet. I am strongly in favor of gay marriage and completely against most of the pro-life points of view (for reasons that transcend the circular discussion of when life begins). This makes me an outsider for the moment, not part of the mainstream of the GOP.

But my numbers are growing. And my age is a factor. You see, the old guard of the Republican party is quite literally dying, and we, the younger members, are moving up. It won’t be long before we are a majority influence and can turn the party back toward preserving the ideals of smaller government, less interference in both business and private life. I believe it is possible to embrace both traditional and progressive values. I do it every day. I believe that it is possible to hold our military up as the primary reason the federal government exists and still manage to protect the rights of two people who wish to legally share their lives, and I will work within my party to make that happen.

I am the Republican Party.

Or more appropriately, I am the future of the Republican Party. And if you think keeping me on your side is worth anything, you might want to re-think the idea of calling me a bigot or a Nazi or spewing hatred at me. Your ideals were soundly rejected, and if you stopped whining long enough to ask, some of us can tell you why. Part of why you don’t know is the fact that you haven’t stopped whining in the last eight years. The steady stream of hate, lies and vitriol from the American left has hardened the American right in ways you can’t begin to imagine. You tempered us. You forged us in the fire of your hate, and you made us stronger than we every could have without your steady litany of bile and complaint.

I’ll give you a perfect, shining example of why you lost. His name is Michael Moore.

Before Moore burst forth with his theories of 9/11 conspiracies, “seven minutes,” blood for oil, Taliban pipelines etc., very little actual criticism was levied at Bush beyond the misguided notion that something errant happened in Florida. If Moore did not exist, I believe that cooler heads would have realized that a never-ending flow of recounts all proved one thing: Bush won. Period. And we would have moved forward. 9/11 would still have happened and we might have had a chance at keeping some of that unity we all felt, but along came Moore, and in tow came the most extreme elements of the American left. Bolstered by the Hollywood liberal, the MoveOn/Democratic Underground lunatic, the darkest fringes of radical American liberalism were given credence simply by being a market share. Fine…free markets are great. Moore has a message, you provided an audience, money was exchanged.

But then you started taking those messages into the political arena as though they had validity. And most of America looked at you like you just grew a third eye right in front of them. And still you persisted, getting more and more hateful, telling more lies, spinning out-of-context elements and juxtaposing any and every situation in order to try to hammer home your talking points. No matter what the discussion, you brought it back to one of Moore’s talking points. If the topic did not fit your need, you forced it, or just ignored it altogether and ranted away.

You never stopped for a minute to consider the fact that you might be wrong. And yet that very behavior is one of the greatest criticisms of Bush by the new radical left. Ironic, I think.

You took this new radicalism so far that your candidate for President, a man who is guided by polls, took a look around and said “Oh, I get it. There is energy around this new radical hate of the President. I will base my message not only around my questionable service, but around this new radical hatred, even if most of it is baseless or contradicts what I said just six or twelve months ago.”

Make no mistake, people, two things lost you this election. First it was your incessant need to spew vile invective at anyone who did not think like you, and secondly, like Nader in 2000, you have one man to thank, and his name is Michael Moore.

As proof of the lack of class, take a look at his site today. As of this writing, that filthy excuse for a human being has replaced all his crowing and self-righteousness with a photo of Bush made up of the first 1000 soldiers that died in Iraq and Afghanistan. I know, from VERY personal letters that I will be sharing with everyone soon, that at minimum, 75% of the people pictured in this photo hate Moore. They cannot stand him and would be deeply offended and disgusted at being used in such a manner.

I see that he doesn’t care, and to be honest, I bet you don’t either. And that’s another reason why you lost. You ignored the voices of those who would die to protect you.

Let me say that again in a different way. There are a few million men and women who have volunteered to give thier very lives to protect you. Can you even grasp the enormity of that concept? After 9/11, knowing there was going to be a military response, hundreds of thousands of people volunteered to join the military to defend you. TO protect you. To take whatever action they could to try to prevent your death in another terrorist attack. They are willing to die for you, and you ignored them. You treated them like mindless pawns. You used them and then tried to elect a man that has betrayed them time and time again.

Do you have any idea how that must feel?

Regardless of your position on Iraq, whether it was warranted or not, they have a position, and that position is overwhelmingly in support of Bush, the idea of the war, the execution of the war and the goal to stay until the work is finished. And you ignored them. Worse, you ridiculed them. You called them “kids” and “children.” You painted them as bloodthirsty savages hell-bent on murder and sadism when you heard that a small number of individuals did some pretty nasty things to some prisoners. They never forgot that, you know.

And that brings it back to the hate and bile that poured forth from the left. The hate and bile that is still pouring out today, perhaps at an even greater rate.

I spent all night last night blogging the election…reading websites, tracking data, reading other blogs, talking about it, watching TV, etc. This morning, while I was still awake after the long run, I was both smug with the win and giddy with relief that we avoided electing a man I have come to despise, and I threw it right in the face of some people on another website. To that person; If you’re reading this, I apologize for my tone. Not my content. You still have some lessons you need to learn, and if you want to move out of the country because of this…more power to you. I don’t believe you will. But that doesn’t excuse the way I spoke to you, and for that I apologize.

Something that person (and the rest of you to whom this letter is addressed) is going to have to learn is that telling me I’m stupid, a racist, a bigot, or whatever else you may come up with is going to result in exactly one thing; further marginalizing you as a political power in America. What you need is me as your ally. Your inside man. Someone who will fight you on a lot of issues, but will also fight for you on others. Why?

Because I am the Republican Party. And right now, we control the game. If you want to play, you need to re-think this idea that throwing tantrums will get you on the field.

Talk to me. Treat me with respect. And you just might find yourself with the most powerful ally you can imagine: someone who shares a vision of a more free, more perfect America.

Take 2

Look at it not as a political issue, or a moral issue or a social issue or anything else but a practical issue. The fact is, if the American left wants to make a difference in America in the next four years, you do not have a choice except to deal with Republican control. That’s the fact. Complain all you want, but that is the way it is.

Do you think name-calling is going to change it? Will it make it easier to get your ideas heard? Will it make it easier to get yor ideas into law? Of course it won’t. That’s a pretty stupid premise. When you want something from someone, do you berate and scream at them, or do you ask? What do we teach children, to throw tantrums, or to ask nicely? What method do you prefer to be used on you, threats, tantrums and vicious personal attacks, or a request for civil conversation and a sharing of ideas with the goal of reaching an accord?

As a matter of consistency, how is it that the American left will literally march in protest over the United States not using diplomacy, and yet are physically incapable of using diplomacy to deal with the right? Doesn’t that just scream “hypocrite?”

To address another issue; No, I’m not a spokesman for the GOP. But someday I will be. If not the GOP, then some other form of conservative movement that will be in control. And my memory for things like who has attacked and berated and browbeat me is long, my friend. Very, very long. Especially for people who attack me for things in which I do not believe without even a moment’s hesitation to hear my point of view. I do not believe it is in my nature, nor the nature of others, to simply take abuse and reward the abuser. That behavior is considered an illness in this country.

Yet another mistake I feel some have made in interpreting what I wrote is that I declared Moore some kind of kingmaker.

No…Moore wanted to be a kingmaker and failed because his message is too full of lies and insanity to appeal to moderate Democrats. However, that did not stop the leadership of the party from adoptying his rhetoric of lies. By choosing to adopt Moore’s litany of deceptions, the Democrats also galvanized the right into a stronger force than they have been in decades. Basically, Moore promised you the moon, and what you got was a cheap card with a picture of the moon on it and a note inside that read “Yeah, I failed, but you paid me millions, so screw you.”

Oh and can we drop the “revolution” nonsense? As a practical matter, you couldn’t possibly pull off a revolution. We own the guns and the military. It was brought up in the comments to this post and it’s not anywhere NEAR the first time I have seen that in the last 48 hours. It makes me laugh every time.

If you would be willing to revolt over one election, you’re not someone who should be taken seriously. On any level. But that doesn’t matter…what are you gonna revolt with? Spitballs? As for legal secession…go ahead and try. No blue area of the country can sustain itself. Too many people, not enough actual production. Stop playing martyr, stop playing victim, stop spewing hate and calm the hell down.

Take a breath, admit that the country is much more conservative than the you wanted to admit, and let’s find ways to compromise. That will never happen while you are busy calling me “stupid” and “a goddamned redneck” and all the other vile things I keep seeing.

The harsh reality of, for the next four years, we don’t need a consensus. The Republicans can, if they so chose, run the country with absolutely zero input from the parts of the left that refuse to tone it down. Should they? No. Can they? You bet your ass. That’s a wake-up call for the American left.

Someone should answer the damned phone.

[Heather]

Why I hate Liberal Democrats in Congress...

...I got a well deserved promotion recently. And now, the US government literally gets $1000 a month from me.

That is just wrong on so many levels. Thats $12000 a year, that they will take from me, so that they can spend frivalously.

And this is WITH the Bush Tax Cut.

[OTH man]

yeah, and death taxes disgust me too
my friend recently had a grandparent die and i mean, its not about the money, its more about how his grandfather WANTED them to get the money but it instead went to the government, its not really greed its just.. the lack of morals in taking that money

surprise surprise, obama is for the death tax

[Heather]

Shocker....

and yeah, the death tax sucks. After my grandfather died, my grandmother started giving my dad and aunt $15000 a year, so that the government wouldnt get it when she died. (She was wealthy). But its sad that you have to resort to that, to insure that your children truly inherit your estate.

[Heather]

sorry for the double post...

...but did anyone else see Obama's comments abouy Clarence Thomas? Personally, I was outraged.

[Jon]

If Clarence Thomas was a liberal like Ruth Bader Ginsburg.....Obama wouldn't have said anything. To me the worst thing is certain people calling others "Uncle Tom."

[Heather]

Did anyone hear about Obama's youngest brother, George? I read a very interesting article about him today....

BARACK BROTHER IN SHACK SHOCK
LIVING IN KENYA ON $1 A MONTH AND ASHAMED TO REVEAL WHO HE IS
By ANDY SOLTIS, Post Wire Services

Barack Obama's long-lost half-brother has surfaced in Kenya - living like a recluse on less than $1 a month and hiding his family ties.

George Hussein Onyango Obama, 25, said he's embarrassed to reveal his identity - because he makes his home in a 6-by-9-foot hut on the outskirts of Nairobi while his world-famous brother is hoping to move into the White House.

"If anyone says something about my surname, I say we are not related; I am ashamed," he told the Italian Vanity Fair. "No one knows who I am."

Barack Obama, 47, wrote warmly about his youngest half-brother in his autobiography, describing him as a "beautiful boy with a rounded head."

The two men - 22 years apart in age - have only met twice. Once was when George was 5. The other was during the Illinois senator's emotional tour of east Africa in 2006.

"It was very brief. We spoke for just a few minutes," George told the magazine. "It was like meeting a complete stranger."

Since Barack Obama became a celebrity, several relatives have shared in his fame, including half-brother Bernard, a Kenyan auto-parts dealer who was front-page news when he visited England last month.

But until now, almost nothing was known about George, who was born to Barack's father, Barack Sr., and his fourth wife.

Barack Sr.'s second wife was American Ann Dunham, the mother of the future senator. But the marriage failed, and after completing his studies in the United States, he returned to Kenya, where he became a senior government economist.

He fathered seven other children, the youngest being George.

Italy's Vanity Fair tracked George Obama down to the violent Kenyan town of Huruma, where he lives alone in a shack adorned with soccer posters, a calendar depicting beaches around the world, and a front-page newspaper photo of the Democratic presidential nominee-to-be.

George Obama said he has no contact with his mother, and apparently has cut himself off from the rest of the family.

"I have had to learn to live and take what I need," he said.

He said he was homeless for 10 years, including when Sen. Obama visited Nairobi two years ago. His home now, the shanty town of Huruma, is "a tough place," he said.

"I have seen two of my friends killed," he added. "I have scars from defending myself with my fists. I am good with my fists."

Other members of the extended Obama family have remained close.

Barack Obama and half-brother Malik Obama, a Kenyan accountant, were the best man at each other's weddings.

"As far as I'm concerned, we are one family," Malik said in 2004.

In Barack Obama's book, he said he was a young adult when he found out about George from his half-sister Auma. In 1988, he met George and several other relatives for the first time when he visited Africa and introduced his wife, Michelle, to the family.

"I took comfort in the fact that perhaps one day, when he was older, George might want to know who his father had been and who his brothers and sisters were," he wrote. "And if he ever came to me, I would be there for him, to tell him the story I knew."

But George Obama is living apart from his family.

"I live like a recluse. No one knows I exist," he said.

[Heather]

I apologize....

Did anyone see Palin on Hannity & Colmes? I thought she did really well.

[Jon]

No need to apologize....most people would have no clue why anyways! I caught her on, the show is actually still going on as I type. Anyways, she's so intellectual and well-spoken. She really impressed me. People will still attack her, but she truly impressed me.

[OTH man]

yeah, double posting rules seem to be void in this forum, so dont apologize

anyways, while we're talking sarah palin, how terrible was charles gibson in their interview? he seemed robotic, and didn't hide his obvious bias against her well at all

and how about mccain on the view?

or my favorite, how obama mocks nerve ending damage from a war experience. It's truely not his fault though, he doesn't understand and can't relate (get used to that line if he gets elected in November)

[Heather]

Charlie Gibson was horrible. It was clear that no matter how she answered his questions, he was going to visibly disapprove of her responses.

But whatever. If he thinks that the average American honestly cares what his opinion is, he is sorely mistaken.

Sarah Palin has serioulsy shaken up this election. The proof is in the rise of McCain's numbers. The liberals attacking her forget that they are not the majority in this country, and its seriously biting them in the ass.

BUt, I am enjoying it. Especially when they go on and on about her inexperience, when she has more experience than Obama. Do they not realize that Americans are seeing the double standard, and responding to it?

[Lorren]

I thought the Charles Gibson interview was horrible as well. I can't remember what question it was, but he didn't like her original answer so he asked the question again... as if she wasn't sure of what she said the first time. Just because she doesn't agree with you doesn't mean she doesn't know what she wanted to say!

[ky2here]

So...what's the Bush Doctrine? Uh..........uh, I say Thanks, but NO Thanks.

Gibson reasked the question because Caribou Barbie wouldn't answer it.

[Heather]

Excuse me...but this thread is Conservatives ONLY.

If you dont have something to add to the conversation, dont post.

And for the record, using terms like "Caribou Barbie" is not adding to the conversation.

[Lorren]

Barbie's pretty smart though. She's been an astronaut, doctor... hasn't she been president before too?

Probably not the intent of the poster, but Barbie is pretty talented.

[Senorjustino]

What do you guys think about this Obama-Weathermen connection?

It's a little bit scary that Obama has a past with all these radicals.

[Senorjustino]

Why are we so quiet on this thread?? It can't be all doom and gloom can it?

[Heather]

I hope not, but I am worried about Tuesday.

Especially since everyday more and more details about Obama's nefarious connections come out...none of which is being reported by the mainstream media. So most Americans have no idea.

[hot_chik_05]

Unfortunately, I think Obama will win (God help and be with us all), but I still have some hope, because I don't believe that Obama is that much ahead of McCain in the polls. It's another extreme liberal media jinx.

Okay, this is probably going to sound like a total stupid question, and I already have my theories, but what is the main reason we are in Iraq right now? Why did we go there in the first place, was it just to capture Sadam Hussein and bring justice to the country? Or was it also about oil?

Anyone have any answers for me?

[Senorjustino]

It was Bush playing emperor of the world. Glad to see some new conservative voices on this board though; the Obama people are everywhere these days.

[hot_chik_05]

It was Bush playing emperor of the world. Glad to see some new conservative voices on this board though; the Obama people are everywhere these days.

^^I highly doubt it was that. However, I do believe oil was part of it. When North Korea was said to have had nuclear weapons, we didn't invade, supposedly because North Korea doesn't really have any valuable resources to us. Iraq has oil, and lots of it. So that's one of the reasons why we went in other than the fact that they had nuclear weapons and just talking with them wasn't going to solve any problems. We had already tried singing 'Kumbaya' with them, and we can see that it apparently didn't have any effect.

Still, I don't think oil was the only reason we invaded Iraq. I think it's safe to say that Iraq is more of a threat to the United States than North Korea ever was. At the time, North Korea couldn't really even be its own people. Sadam Hussein supported terrorists and spent money for them. We once told Hussein when he was still in power that he could basically stay in power if he promised not to try to take over any countries, but he soon started to ignore us. If he would've taken over Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and other countries around that region, he would've basically had control over the greatest world supply of oil. So we had no choice but to stop him not only for our benefit, but for other countries as well.

You see all these hippies and liberals getting angry that we are still in Iraq, or even the fact that we entered Iraq at all. But honestly, doesn't it finally look like justice has served the Iraqi citizens? The evil dictator is dead, and he deserved to die. Now, the people of Iraq are closer to a Democratic government.

It just sickens me when some 'Americans' -if you can even call them that- bash the soldiers. The soldiers, our brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers, aunts and uncles, even grandparents, who gave and are to this day giving their lives just so we can hold on to the one thing we hold most dear to us: freedom.

Don't get me wrong; I strongly believe in freedom of speech. However, I can't help but want to punch somebody out whenever I hear someone bash the soldiers.

[Heather]

Saddham already invaded and controlled a neighboring nation once. It was why we went to Iraq in the 90s, and why Kuwait counts America as a friend. We kicked him out of their country.

My brother just got back to Baghdad, and I talked to him for the first time since he arrived. Its interesting hearing him talk about how different everything is from what it was. Its not the doom and gloom its painted to be at all. They dont even have military convoys in Baghdad anymore.

As for the results...I'll be watching. And I'll be casting my vote first thing in the morning.

Go GOP!!!

[Kirsten]

I have the day off and will be voting soon. In my state we're voting on slots, too (whether or not to have them). I'm voting no on that question. I just don't think the short-term payoff is worth the long-term detriment to our society.

[Panda]

I'm really nervous guys.....

[Heather]

Its the end of the world as we know it...

[Panda]

Trust it, Heather.

Did you see the polls this year? I mean so many black people and hispanics are out voting who could give two sh*ts before. This is retarded!
It's not like they never had a voice, and now all of a sudden they come out of the woodwork and are all political because their was a black candidate.. who in my mind if a f*cking terrorist. Or at least associated with them.. this guy has no business in the white house. None.

This votes were because of the color of his skin, not because they wanted this country to change.

I live in the most liberal state (MA) and you would not believe the people I saw at the polls. 76% of new votes are all african american.. so lets be frank when saying that more than half of those voters were frankly voting because he was black. Done.

BEST THING EVER.
I was watching fox news during the election coverage last night, and they did a survey on who's going to win and why and people emailed answers.
First on goes to McCain: "I think McCain/Palin will take the ticket, I don't think America is that passive to let Obama come out on top.
Second email goes to Obama: I think that Obama will win cuz every1 like him.
Third email goes to Obama: I'm voting Obama becuz he can give me an educations cuz I dont think Mccain can do that for me.
Fourth email goes to McCain: I'm praying for a McCain victory.

Inexperienced and uneducated, much?

[Faith]

Wow, when did bigotry become okay on these boards?

Did you see the polls this year? I mean so many black people and hispanics are out voting who could give two sh*ts before. This is retarded!

I'd have thought it were a good thing that the amount of people voting has risen. I wish people would get their act together and vote more in my country. Regardless of their motivations for choosing who they choose, the more people that vote the more fair a representation of the country is gathered.

who in my mind if a f*cking terrorist. Or at least associated with them..

Please elaborate?


Anyway, Heather and everyone else who found this election didn't go in the direction they would have wanted, that's rough for you and all, but at least you can be proud of the fact that McCain took it like a proper man without resorting to the whole 'he only won it 'cos is is black, innit' tact. He has done you guys proud

[Panda]

I DONT NEED TO ELABORATE TO SOMEONE WHO OUTRIGHT CALLED ME IRRATIONAL.

Well he obviously wouldn't go and say now would he? Had it gone the other way though..

Wow, when did bigotry become okay on these boards?

When it's the truth. Does that answer your question? Did you go to the polls and see what I saw? Have you been voting in America since you were 18? Then don't tell me that I'm a bigot.




I'd have thought it were a good thing that the amount of people voting has risen. I wish people would get their act together and vote more in my country. Regardless of their motivations for choosing who they choose, the more people that vote the more fair a representation of the country is gathered.


Not when they are voting for all the wrong reasons. Which I'm guessing around 76% did.

[Faith]

Very rational response there ;)
I love the whole 'You can't have an opinion because you aren't an American' response, it never gets old.

Who is to say what the right and wrong reasons to vote are?

I'm just genuinely curious as to in what ways Obama is a terrorist. If you refuse to answer me, can someone else that agrees with that statement please? I hear that banded about from time to time but am yet to have the reasoning behind it explained

[Panda]

Techincally, my rational response would not be appropriate for these boards. ;) ;)

Never said you can't have an opinion.. I said you didn't see what I saw. You didn't see the difference in voters because the man was black. There was no other reasoning behind besides a small percentage. I'm telling you right now, had it been two white men or even Hilary for that matter, they would not have been at those polls. Of course, I could never prove that, I just know deep down in my heart thats how it would be. It's not fair to people who believe in these candidates, weather Obama or McCain, to just get a complete blow out because the color of his skin. If you truly did your research and believed in Obama's views, I would never, EVER, judge WHO you vote for.

If it's because he's black.. then yeah. That's NOT okay, no matter how many people come out and "voice their opinion".

Obama has ties that are not made public knowledge. I have no doubts in that. He is crooked. So is my governor, Deval Patrick, who everyone thought was so great and wonderful and now he is nothing but a wet match in a dark cave. Absolutely useless. Doing nothing but buying cadillacs, furniture, houses whatever with his new money. AND Barack is in kahoots with him. So you can see my concern. I think he knows things, and now he's going to know even more since he is president.
Do I think their will be another terroist attack? YES. Absolutely, I do.

[Faith]

Orchestrated by him? Because if not, I'm still to see any direct links between Obama and terrorism. I'd be very happy to survey them if you have any documents on it? I'm genuinely curious

As for the 'why'? Firstly there is no way to know why people voted. As said in the other thread, perhaps they voted because they finally feel truly represented. At the end of the day isn't that what the president is meant to be? A representative of the people?

[Panda]

Oh yeah, because if there were direct links and documents out there.. do you think he would have made it this far?

No, you are right in assuming I dont know everyone's reason for voting the way they did. The percentages are what concern me, and those are legit.
And to say that no other candidate in the history of the presidental election actually understood and backed them is just silly. It's silly. Look at John Kerry, Gore!

[Faith]

That isn't what I said. I said this may be the first time they feel genuinely represented.

I just need to get this straight though. There is no evidence or in fact indication that Obama is a terrorist? So it is just a conspiracy theory? Just to clarify so I know what point it is you are arguing. So what is it that makes you feel that he is a terrorist?

[Panda]

I guess you can say a conspiracy theory. That might be a better phrase than anything else I could say. I think he has ties with people who are considered terrorists or are associated with terrorism. If I say anymore, it's just going to land me in trouble. I will wait it out and when it comes or if it doesn't, I guess people will find out then.

I don't like all the stuff that goes on with his long lost brother in Kenya, if you were a wealthy person and had a starving half brother in another country living in complete poverty and filth.. wouldn't you lend a hand? Wouldn't you reach out to him?
Wouldn't you find a way to help him?

[Faith]

His brother has nothing to do with terrorism.

I can't see any reason for assuming he is a terrorist

There must be an obvious one that is just flying right over my head...

[Panda]

... if you are even considering because he's black or his name is Obama Huessin, then your dead wrong.

[Faith]

I wouldn't dare assume your reasons. I just assume you have them..

I'm curious as to what they are

[Panda]

My family (my father in particular) is very into politics. They have been since as long as I can remember, since my mother and father have been able to vote.
So I know about all of the day to day things that are said.. some are absolutely false or misinturputed but some are to my beliefs, true.
For example, Obama's birth certificate. What's with that? Why was there so much speculation on whether or not its was bogus? You could say because republicans have nothing better to do which was the common, general response. Or you could be like me and say, why is holding on to your birth certificate not something to be suspicious about?

Or is association with the Chicago act of terrosim bombings in the 1970s. Was it guilty by association considering he was in that gang of people who conducted the act? Or was it too much a stretch? Or was he behind it and knew of it this whole time?

People believe what they want. What I believe in is what I think is right, so obviously no judgement on how others look at situations. But thats what I'm going off of. And, this is only the tip of the iceberg of information I have learned over these past 21 months of this long, drawn out historic election.

[Heather]

There is no disputing that he has ties to William Ayers, and refused to renounce him at any time. He threw Jeremiah Wright under the bus, but never once said anything negative about a known terrorist, who in 2001 said he regretted not doing enough.

[Faith]

So that suggests Obama is a terrorist?

I'd be careful throwing stuff like that around about your president Panda.

They are always watching

[Panda]

excuse me?
what the f*** is that supposed to mean?

is someone gonna come find me and associate me with terrorism? or is a terrorist going to come and kill me?

what an awesome thing to say on a forum, WATCH WHAT YOU SAY.

Was that a threat, FAITH? cause it kind of sounded as one.. I wouldnt be saying stuff like that out here. You might not know who's reading.

[Faith]

It was a joke, implying that the President's people are 'always watching' in a comical, conspiracy theory manner. Perhaps I should have lol'ed.

[Heather]

Well, since Tuesday, I can honestly say that I AM afraid of Big Brother watching.

And yes, Im sorry, but being friends with a terrorist is just too sketchy a thing to overlook. People are, and should be, judged by the company that they keep. And the alliances and friendships Obama has are just plain terrifying.

[ky2here]

But dumping your first wife because she's fat and disfigured is OK to overlook.

And , oh never mind!!!!

LOL

[Heather]

What part of Conservative thread do you NOT understand???

I dont go posting in the liberal thread...although I could, and have every right to as a moderator of this forum. I let them have there space, and peace, even if I dont agree with anything that is said in there.

Quite frankly, your constant posting and disparaging in this thread is really pissing me off. Forget reporting you...I am THIS close to taking your unneeded and insulting posts to Emma.

As for your "first wife" comment. It is completely ignorant. No one but McCain and his 1st wife (and possibly Cindy) no why that marriage fell apart. Keep in mind that this was a man who had just returned home after years of torture.

As the sister of someone in the military, I know what warzones do to the psyche. You DONT.

So dont talk crap about a POW because his first marriage fell apart. You have no idea what he was going through mentally at the time he returned home.

And if I see you post like that again in this thread, I will report you to Emma. That is not a threat, its a promise.

[nicnac]

As the sister of someone in the military, I know what warzones do to the psyche. You DONT.


Heather, you are not the only one to have family or friends in warzones... chill out.

[Jon]

I'll add to what Heather said by saying, why are there suddenly liberals posting in this thread? I posted in the liberal thread by mistake when it was had some weird fish name. Then many of you commented I should not post there, so I stopped, and so did Heather. Now isn't it hypocritical to post here? And by the way, it makes it easy for us to post in the liberal thread by the way with some of you coming in here.

[nicnac]

i dont consider myself a liberal or a conservative , so i post here, there and everywhere:up:

[Kirsten]

I just think that people shouldn't come to a thread with different values and pick at those posting there. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, and the various threads were created with that in mind. I may be wrong, but I don't think they were ever intended to be debate threads or let's-all-pile-on-someone threads.

[Faith]

I'm not fully aligned with any party so I don't see why I can't post in all threads

Play nice Jon

[Jon]

Play nice? If you're going to tell me that then you better tell others that too. And you should be glad my language is clean. I've seen enough garbage in these threads and I'm referring to the blatant name calling and horrible language. So don't you dare tell me to play nice, when I'm calling it like I see it.

And actually again this is the CONSERVATIVE thread, because you're not "aligned" with a party doesn't then mean theres a loophole that allows you to post and make comments I find disparaging. Speaking of which, this is a quote taken from Heather's intro post for this thread.

"This thread is just for Conservatives....those who respect the traditions this nation was founded on, are proud of our nations heritage, respect our President, our soldiers, and understand why we are actually in Iraq, apart from the conspiracy theories constantly thrown our way."

Again, I was picked on for accidentally posting in the liberal thread, so now I'm doing the same thing to those wanting to post in the conservative thread. Like I said, I call them like I see them. I'm just doing what those in the liberal thread is doing and has done to me. And for the record, I could have said a lot more and a lot worse than what I posted.

[Heather]

Heather, you are not the only one to have family or friends in warzones... chill out.

Please dont tell me to chill out when I have a brother suffering from PTSS due to his first tour in Iraq (and now he's back). I will not stand for anyone bashing military vetrans, in any way shape or form.

[Faith]

Play nice? If you're going to tell me that then you better tell others that too. And you should be glad my language is clean. I've seen enough garbage in these threads and I'm referring to the blatant name calling and horrible language. So don't you dare tell me to play nice, when I'm calling it like I see it.

And actually again this is the CONSERVATIVE thread, because you're not "aligned" with a party doesn't then mean theres a loophole that allows you to post and make comments I find disparaging. Speaking of which, this is a quote taken from Heather's intro post for this thread.

"This thread is just for Conservatives....those who respect the traditions this nation was founded on, are proud of our nations heritage, respect our President, our soldiers, and understand why we are actually in Iraq, apart from the conspiracy theories constantly thrown our way."

Again, I was picked on for accidentally posting in the liberal thread, so now I'm doing the same thing to those wanting to post in the conservative thread. Like I said, I call them like I see them. I'm just doing what those in the liberal thread is doing and has done to me. And for the record, I could have said a lot more and a lot worse than what I posted.

Good to see this board is as mature and warm as ever.

[Panda]

Oh like you're mature?
You came here making threats and then played them off as a joke..

[Faith]

Who said I was mature?
And how can I threaten you?
I'm not a terrorist. I have no connections to terrorism. I'm not the president. I have no connection to the president. You can ask Heather if you don't believe me, she's 'known' me for six years and I think she can vouch for the fact I'm pretty harmless. No evil mastermind stuff going on here. I was just shocked you would so openly accuse your President of terrorism, because the majority of FBI-esque films I've seen tend to show them constantly tapping the wires and 'always listening.' Hence the badly received joke.

I'm a 20 year old student sat in her flat wasting away the hours in Glasgow, posting on message boards to stimulate the brain cells and procrastinating instead of doing the mounting piles of literature coursework that currently surround me. Hardly threatening. And for what it is worth, it was a joke. Next time I'll write LOL in big letters, and continue the post with an array of smilie faces.

Jon doesn't need you to snap to his defence. I may not agree with 97% of his opinions, but at least he thinks them through and presents them in an intelligent, thought out manner, (if not always the most warm and welcoming one.) He doesn't just post reactionary, personal drivel.

[Captain oats 13]

Can I just step in here for one second?

GUYS!! for those who are not Concervative, GET THE **** OUT!!!!! I don't want people whining in our thread, so why do that to theirs? That's just gonna make things worse than they already are in this forum.

BTW, Heather, I am sorry to hear about your brother and I hope he comes through that horrible disorder alright. And can I say just for the record, there are Liberals out there who do think about the war veterans in their hearts. We may not agree about Iraq, but please do not falsly assume all of us don't care.

[Panda]

I'm not going to sit hear and let you tell me that my posts are not intelligent responses to your ridicolous questions.
Let's be honest here.. I dont think you are a conservative, so dont post here if its going to be negative.

And to say well I never claimed a party, neither did I, I'm an independent and always will be. But, I dont go into the liberal thread because I normally dont agree with most of the thoughts and discussions there, so I wont be IRRATIONAL and go in to start an argument. Thats what a real IRRATIONAL person would do. I love all of these vocab words I'm learning from you too, I was never known to be IRRATIONAL. I should get a word of the day calander.. :)

I understand Kristy, and thats why I have never posted in that thread. I respect your opinions and I think we are asking for the same in return.

[Faith]

Alas, you are right

For what it is worth, I genuinely came here to congratulate you all on McCain's mature and noble acceptance of the results. Its just so easy to get drawn into debate in these boards

Excuse me while I go and find a brick wall to bang my head against

You seem to have a real big issue with the whole irrationality quip. APOLOGIES, for the final time about that. I wasn't claiming you were an irrational person, --how would I know? -- but stating that what you said in that instance was, to me, an irrational, problematic proposition. I stand by that, as it is impossible to 'round up' every black person that voted in America in order to find one that voted McCain. But you seem to have taken it as a really personal slant against you, so I APOLOGISE

I hope your brother is okay Heather.

Over and out

[Heather]

I think we all need to take a deep breath. There is absolutely no reason for animosity or arguing in this thread.

So, offensive posters....stay out.

As for my brother...if by okay, you mean safe, he is. You wouldnt believe the changes in Iraq since the first time he was there...but I really dont think I should post something like that in an open forum like this.

If you mean mentally, its been a hell of a year for him...so I just pray everyday that he is okay, and makes it through. Because, honestly, he has been through so much, and the last thing he needs is a year in Baghdad...but that is where he is right now.

[Senorjustino]

So Detroit auto bailout? Terrible idea or WORST IDEA EVER?

[Heather]

Any time the government gets involved in the free markets its a horrible idea. The more they attempt to ease the burden, the more they screw everything up.

[Senorjustino]

Big government=big disaster.

I am curious to see where this is going.

[hot_chik_05]

Barack Obama says we need a strong civil army, with the power of our military force.

Communist China or Hitler's Nazi Germany, anyone?

[Heather]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Fairness Doctrine, and what that means with liberals in power?

[hot_chik_05]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Fairness Doctrine, and what that means with liberals in power?

Yeah. They're going to try to get rid of the first and most important amendment in our Constitution. They want to take away freedom of speech.

Like I said, it somewhat similar to Hitler's Nazi Germany. The first thing Hitler did was take over the newspapers. Now, the liberal media wants to get rid of Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Laura Ingraham, Michael Savage, Rush Limbough, and other conservative talk show hosts to shut up the conservative voice. Well, actually right now they're just trying to put more liberals on the radio to even things out. However, eventually they're going to end up doing the thing I explained before.

No, they're not trying to take away freedom of speech, that just goes for conservatives. If you're not a liberal, then it's basically going to be like, "screw you."

You know what? Let them take away conservative talk shows and everything that stands for conservatism. It's not going to shut up our hearts, minds, and voices. Liberals are the most hypocritical bunch in this country there ever was. At least we know conservatives, won't be the ones responsible for ruining this country.

There's probably going to be some bad times ahead of us, guys, but it's important that you don't give up hope. I believe something will happen in the future that will mentally and politically wake everybody up.