New Yorkers are such optimists...

[Andrew]

+-SOURCE-+ (http://news.yahoo.com/fc/Business/Labor_and_Workplace)

NEW YORK - The city's subway and bus workers went on strike Tuesday for the first time in more than 25 years, stranding millions of commuters, holiday shoppers and tourists at the height of the Christmas rush. A judge promptly slapped the union with a $1 million-a-day fine.

State Justice Theodore Jones leveled the sanction against the Transport Workers Union for violating a state law that bars public employees from going on strike.

Attorneys for the city and state had asked Jones to hit the union with a "very potent fine" for defying the law.

"This is a very, very sad day in the history of labor relations for New York City," the judge said in imposing the fine.

The union vowed to immediately appeal, calling it an excessive fine.

The heavy penalty could force the union off the picket lines and back on the job. Its 33,000 members are already facing individual fines of two days' pay for every day they are on strike.

The courtroom drama came midway through a day in which the strike fell far short of the all-out chaos that many had feared.

The nation's largest transit system ground to a halt after 3 a.m. when the 33,000-member Transport Workers Union called the strike after a late round of negotiations with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority broke down Monday night. The subways and buses provide more than 7 million rides per day.

New Yorkers car-pooled, shared taxis, rode bicycles, roller-skated or walked in the freezing cold. Early morning temperatures were in the 20s.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who had said the strike would cost the city as much as $400 million a day, joined the throngs of people crossing the Brooklyn Bridge by foot.


I must admit... I thought I would dread walking across the bridge... but it was actually pretty fun :bgrin: (well... i must admit, I wasn't walking... but rather rollerblading :up: )

Normally, I wouldn't strike a conversation with a random person, but today felt different. I asked this guy whether he enjoyed the walking (since he smirking along the way)... he responded "Not really, but you gotta do what you gotta do... Besides, i'm saving money and getting excercise; it's win-win"

Touché, mister... touché

[*gwen*~*grover*]

haha, i know this is for completely selfish reasons, but i didnt have to go to school today, haha. well, i couldve, and i was supposed to, i was gonna walk the 4 miles (not so bad, i love walking the bridge btw, haha), but i was up really late last night, and when i got up this morning, i was like "no, im going back to sleep" haha.
even though bloomberg has his 'plan', the teachers just said that if there was a strike, dont come to school... and i know its selfish to wish for one, but......
i know what you mean about the conversation thing though, kindof like the blackout situation, that what the people's attitute reminds me of, except the situation isnt as drastic...

[Kaylan]

Interesting that there's a State Law banning public employees to strike. Indeed very sad for Labour everywhere.

[Ol'blueyes]

Haha thats awesome that you don't have school but this is effin ridiculous.

[kbear49]

Took my friend 4 hours to get to work. She lives 12 miles from her work. THAT would suck. If you didnt live very far away.. walk, run or bike. I bike around my campus. It's good for you and hell maybe it will decrease the overweight population. Since I've been home for the holidays I've been driving and I feel sluggish. I miss my bike.

[*gwen*~*grover*]

yeah, i love walking, people need to exercise more, haha/

Interesting that there's a State Law banning public employees to strike. Indeed very sad for Labour everywhere.
i agree, i really dont know that much about this problem, but i think thats a little rediculous...

bloomberg made a speech where he said that the mta was "thuggishly" denying our citizens transportation, or something,...

[oclover24]

Hmm, so from what I'm seeing, New Yorkers are really dependent on public transportation. On the Today Show, they showed people were walking everywhere.

[*gwen*~*grover*]

yeah, i mean, i walk anywhere thats under a mile and a half, but otherwise i take the subway... but the roads have been so horrendous bc of people who dont want to walk rediculous distances and you need at least 4 people in a car to enter manhattan (which is really funny hearing people with their heads out of their car going "anyone going uptown"... and people get in... back to the optimist thing, that would never happen before)
ahh i have to go eat, ill be back, haha

[Andrew]

Actually... that's not true... I can recall several times where I've shared cabs with strangers right after a late night thing or if I didn't bring enough money

The carpooling now... well... yes, there is a whole lot of traffic throughout the morning and yeah the walking paths on bridges are very crowded... but in the midst of that, it's fine.

Plus... traffic should be less compressed tomorrow since they've opened up previously closed avenues (leaving out one lane for emergency cars)

[oclover24]

Question - why would teachers say you shouldn't go to school? There are school buses! (Wait, are there not school buses in NYC?)

[Andrew]

In regards to the school buses: in New York City? :no: well at least not for public schools. Some (and I stress some) private/religious schools do, but even that's a rarity.

About the teachers... It's more of a "you might as well not" thing because it's kind of true... Not all teachers live within the city (Some live in NJ... some out in Long Island). Even if there is a pretty decent teacher turnout, there's alway the possibility of a student shortage. There are schools right now with a 5% attendence rate because of the strike.

[oclover24]

^Are you serious? That's crazy!

[Heather]

^^^ Thats NY. Without forms of mass transportation, you pretty much cant get anywhere.

You what disgusts me about this more than anything? As it is, MTA workers make more than any teacher in NYC....and now, they want more money?

Im sorry, but I find that revolting, as a teacher.

[Ol'blueyes]

not to mention, so many tourists come and look at the tree this year so theres like twice as many people in the city.

[Andrew]

You what disgusts me about this more than anything? As it is, MTA workers make more than any teacher in NYC....and now, they want more money?

They're supposedly striking because of retirement pension and benefits. But like you said, teachers get less and have a harder job. There are plenty of people without jobs (or in some cases, with jobs) that would consider it a privilege to get what the MTA workers are getting.

They say that they work so hard... and yet there are ALWAYS delays, trains are frequently late (think in durations of "hours"), most stations are filthy (although, this is not entirely their fault; lazy commuters have to do with this too), and in the last year alone, more than just a few mechanical problems.

Also, for the most part... what do the workers do? Sit in a train all day pressing buttons, maybe moving every few stops to look out the cart window? Sit in a heated/air-conditioned (depending on season) booth all day doing the extremely difficult job of exchanging money for metrocards? Wear the red vest and just stand there not really helping people? Whoopty-doo...

[christy86]

My city is 2-3million, i could not believe it if our bus and monorail. YES MONORORAIL, like the simpsons, haha. Went on strike. We depend so much on the busses...but then again we also have traffic like that shown on tv....sorta.....but geez i mean why didn't they do the whole strike like after the new year. I hope they make a deal....and Heather didn't you say NJ teachers make 40k a yr? Gah poor teachers here make 19-28k a yr...and more expirence make 33k....

[Andrew]

Yeah... i dunno if Times Square will be the same without the huge crowd...

Although, there is a good thing out of it: me and friends will get a better spot to stand in on the 31st when we all go :bump2:

[Heather]

and Heather didn't you say NJ teachers make 40k a yr? Gah poor teachers here make 19-28k a yr...and more expirence make 33k....
Thats teachers who teach in New Jersey. NYC teachers should be making much more than that, and yet, like Andrew pointed out, MTA workers who sit on a seat all day, and do pretty much nothing, make alot more than NYC teachers do. Thats an abomination.

ANdrew, you actually go to Times Square on New Years Eve? *shudders* Im not a fan of the cold, so the idea of even going never even occured to me. I prefer to stay warm. :lol:

[Andrew]

I LOVE the cold weather. It's even better when there's snow. Plus you get so many funny stories from just standing/waiting in Times Square on that day... can't pass it up :up:

[christy86]

Haha, Andrew you're a warm blooded man. I am cold and it's 45out. ;) When it snowed last yr here, 1/4th inch, lmao. My hands were turning numb from how cold it was outside. I admire people like you Andrew. :) So strong!

Oh that sucks, teachers should make more....then those workers.

But I was just saying, tx teachers need more cash!! lol

[*gwen*~*grover*]

haha, i agree, but i dont think teachers in ny make more than that (i dont really know though, but from what mine have said.. haha)

i love the cold too, haha... but i couldnt stand that crowd... i tried once and went back home (plus im bitter and dont like new years :lol: ) i bet there will still be a huge crowd anyway
and i think that the MTA and whatever officials from the city are meeting now and discussing, im not really sure what... but i dont know if theyll come to any decisions

haha, andrew, ive shared cabs with strangers, youre right, but i wouldnt really get into a car with someone whose just calling out on the street, haha.

[Andrew]

Darn... progress is being made

And I had the system down too! All that adjusting for nothing...

[Ol'blueyes]

According to ABC, it has officially ended.

[*gwen*~*grover*]

oh, wow, what did they finally decide on?

[Heather]

Thank God...Im sick of all this TV interruption :lol:

Plus, the more I hear, the more I want to slap a MTA worker.

[oclover24]

This is coming from a non-New-Yorker, but don't the workers help the city make $400 million a day? I'm not sure if this is true, but I heard they don't even have health care plans for their family. I'm not saying bus drivers should be making more money than say teachers, but I see why they went on strike: they know that they are all worth $400 million, and wanted more money for helping the city make that much money.

[*gwen*~*grover*]

yeah, they do, well i think thats between paying for rides, but also bc of tourism and holiday shopping... people dont want travel etc in the cold with bags and stuff... i went into macys, and it was practically empty (well, its never empty, you know...)... so it was really the ideal time to for a bargaining position... ive still been too lazy to research what the strike was even over (haha)... too busy sleeping... and being on vacation (WOOOOOOOOOOOOO IM SOOO EXCITED HAHAHA :lol: ok, im done...), and who knew that you could kill 3 days on line... me now, haha OT but thats ok...

[Heather]

They went on strike over the benefits and pension of FUTURE MTA workers. Not theirs.

Thats what pisses me off about it. They are costing the cities millions, alot of mom and pop businesses will probably go under because of the loss of revenue, and all for what? The benefits and pension of people who dont even work for the MTA right now?

[Shirphie]

I didn't have to go to school for the 3 days it went on, and by the time they said it was over, I officially started my winter vacation already :shrugs: My teachers told us not to come to school because my school is in the city, and 95% of the students travel there by mass transit so only if you lived nearby could you have gone anyway.

I know it pissed a lot of people off, my mom included. She lost 2 day's work pay and today she finally had to go nonetheless. Like the mayor said, those businesses will never get back the lost earnings. It was such an inconvenience to everyone and it was illegal too, but they were selfish and did it anyway.

[Ol'blueyes]

ugh bloomberg, i hate that man. <---random i know, just had to let it out.

[*gwen*~*grover*]

its alright, im not such a big fan...
so, this is an honest question, but why is going on strike illegal? is it just this strike?

[oclover24]

Apparently, it is illegal in NYC or NY (I'm not sure) for public workers to strike. IMO - that sucks!

[Andrew]

Yeah... The "Taylor Law"... although I'm not familar with the details, only the gist; it's illegal to strike.

In a way, I think it's good, considering the scale of situation: MTA workers decide to not report to their job, and subsequently it affects the whole city.

And I know what you're probably thinking: "That just proves how crucial they are in order to keep the city running."

You can say that... but you can also say that in regards to the NYPD or NYC firefighters, who pretty much get crap for their job (NYPD: one of the best police force, but lowest income... huh? :ebraise: )

[oclover24]

^NYPD are very passionate about their jobs, it seems. Public workers are way under-paid. Teachers, cops, firefighters, etc. They help the public and they don't get a lot from it.

I remember when the state park workers here in Minnesota striked. The state parks went unsupervised. There is a state park called "Gooseberry Falls."

Gorgeous park. Anyway, so tons of people that were on vacation on the North Shore, and because it was unsupervised, a lot of people were climbing in areas where they weren't supposed to be. For example, the middle of those waterfalls! People were standing in the middle of river, climbing the hills...it was crazy!

So my point is, we do need public workers to run our world, and they are worth a lot, but I see why in some places they cannot legally strike. Our world would fall apart without a lot of the workers.

[Heather]

I really dont think you understand this.

MTA workers, who pretty much sit in a booth all day, whether it be in a train, bus, or subway, and collect tolls, make more money than:

1. Police and firefighters....both who risk their lives, everytime they put a uniform on, knowing they may never see their loved ones again.

and....

2. Teachers...who are responsible for the education of future generations.

That is not right. And they completely destroyed the cities economy, sent self-made businesses under, lost tourism (the list goes on and on)....and why? Because they wanted to ensure the benefits of people WHO DONT EVEN WORK FOR THE MTA.

That is despicable. Completely despicable, and they should be ashamed of themselves. It wasnt about their needs, or livelihood, yet they destroyed the needs and livelihoods of countless others. It disgusts me, as a regular visitor of NYC.

Before, I would always take MT, rather than drive in Manhatten. Now, Im willing to drive. Im not about to do anything to support people, who would destroy others....especially during the Christmas season.

As far as Im concerned, the MTA can bite me. Id rather drive to NYC, pay a fortune to park, and then walk, or take a cab, then use the subway in the city, or any other form of mass transportation.

Because, what they did, and cost this city, is deplorable.

And yes, public workers in our cities are important. But these guys....they disgust me. They make more than people who risk their lives everyday. And yet, they would disrupt an entire city, over people who dont even work for the MTA right now? How insane is that?

The NYPD....the NYFD...the teachers, all do so much more than the MTA does, and they get less pay, and less benefits. And Im sorry, but when someone who can barely speak English makes more money than those who risk their lives, and educate the future New Yorkers, I have a serious problem.

[Ol'blueyes]

....right on and johnny damon sucks at life. ok im done.

[oclover24]

I don't get why apparently I don't get it. What don't I get? It may be wrong, but if you know you are worth a lot of money, why not try to get paid more for what you do? Yes, the MTA workers do way less than teachers and the police force (I'm stressing the "way!") but they do make the city a lot of money, and they know that so that's why they went on strike. I'm not saying (IMO) that it was right for them to strike, especially if there is a law against it.

...ah, whatever. I guess you must be from New York to get it. You guys are out there experiencing the effects of the strike, and I'm watching it on the Today Show.

[*gwen*~*grover*]

no, i agree... im in no way saying that its right... but if you got it, flaunt it...
it was despicable, but at any other time of year, the strike probabaly wouldve lasted more than three days... not that it really helps, but a lot of economists say that bloomburg's figures were very high, the city probably lost half as much as he said... thats still a lot, but...
and heather, i think it was a little presumptuous of you to talk about them barely speaking english etc... obviously theyre not as educated as teachers, but its just unfair to say something like that... there is something screwed up when they get paid more than teachers or firefighters... they should strike, they deserve higher pay, and it wouldnt even last three days, and i think that would be more disruptive than the MTA striking, but they deserve it, whether theyre better people or not they should have the same bargaining position, even just threatening one... i dont know

and can you put up the article where it said that this strike was only for future employees of the MTA, bc i havent seen that anywhere...

[Heather]

and heather, i think it was a little presumptuous of you to talk about them barely speaking english etc... obviously theyre not as educated as teachers, but its just unfair to say something like that..
Its not presumptous. It is a reference to MTA workers who were interviewed on the local news.

Ill look for an article about the reasonings behind it. But all over the local news, and talk radio, they were talking about that, and how unreasonable it was, which I agree with. That it was the 6% of future employees, and how the current members benefits would stay the same, but benefits for future employees would change. Thats why they went on strike.

[Webeh]

MTA workers, who pretty much sit in a booth all day, whether it be in a train, bus, or subway, and collect tolls, make more money than:

1. Police and firefighters....both who risk their lives, everytime they put a uniform on, knowing they may never see their loved ones again.

and....

2. Teachers...who are responsible for the education of future generations.

I'm curious. How much do the police, teachers, MTA workers, etc make? From what I've been reading here, it looks like they all really get the short end of the stick.

Where I am, I know that the police and transit workers make a decent amount. (Those jobs are very and I mean VERY difficult to get.) Teachers get paid a crappy amount (because politicians like to invest in everything but education) and I have no clue about firefighters.

In the last year, we had the TTC (Toronto Transit Commission) threaten a strike and the police go on a work to rule. Generally, the public tend to be pretty understanding the unions' different movements. Sure, it could be a hassle (I remember having a near freakout over the TTC because I was in the middle of midterms and it was a 1.5 h each way. But fortunately, they avoided a strike.), but they get that they're just trying to make a decent living.

Anyways, the government generally tends to cave to the TTC's wishes because they know what will happen if they go on strike. And, they want to get elected in for another term, not be remembered for allowing a strike to happen.

[Quinton]

See... that's why I'm glad to live where I live. If something like this happens it's really not an issue. I'd just walk the 20mins or so (which I do twice during an average working day anyway) to get to and from work. The rail and bus network, whilst having long-term benefits, are really not all that vital to the sustainability of my city. I can understand though that for a city the size of NYC, it would be chaos.

Merry Xmas all btw and Happy New Year for the coming days (wherever you may be). :D

[Andrew]

I'm curious. How much do the police, teachers, MTA workers, etc make? From what I've been reading here, it looks like they all really get the short end of the stick.

MTA workers currently get $47,000 - $55,000

NYPD starts off at $25,100

NYFD starts off at $36,878

A teacher starting off with a bachelor's degree and less than 6 months experience can get around $38,000

Now, think about what MTA workers do compared to what NYPD/NYFD/teachers do.

Then after that, compare the prerequsites needed in becoming an MTA worker with the prerequisites needed in becoming a teacher.

[Webeh]

Hmm... The MTA salary seems semi-decent, depending on your level of seniority. But, at times it still could be difficult to live on that annual income, especially if you're single. (I'm reading the amounts as Canadian $$ because I'm assuming that with everything costing more in the US, everything should even itself out. But, if I were to convert the US amounts into Canadian, the MTA workers actually do get paid pretty well.)

The amounts for the NYPD, NYFD, and teachers are crazy. How are you supposed to live comfortably on that amount?

In Toronto, I heard (on the news) that the starting for an officer is $50,000 (About $38,000 US, but in Canadian it is a decent amount). It just seems wrong that they get paid so little in NYC, especially since everything is so dang expensive.

This may be going a bit off track, but when I judge the salaries of different careers, I also like to consider the amount of education/pre-job experience required. I think that how much you invest in preparation for your future career should also determine how much you make (not only the amount of work in the job itself). As a current student (this is going to sound snobbish), I think that someone who spends the time/money to earn the degrees/get the experience, should earn a higher salary than those who don't. (That's why I tend to favour the educated actors over the school dropouts.)

[Heather]

See... that's why I'm glad to live where I live. If something like this happens it's really not an issue. I'd just walk the 20mins or so (which I do twice during an average working day anyway) to get to and from work. The rail and bus network, whilst having long-term benefits, are really not all that vital to the sustainability of my city. I can understand though that for a city the size of NYC, it would be chaos.
Its not just the size of the city thats the problem. About 90% of NYC residents rely on some form of mass transportation to get around. Most US cities arent like that. So when there is no mass transportation, you're pretty much stranded.

[Webeh]

^ Oh yeah. Not having the transportation available can be really stressful if you work or have to go to school. Really really stressful.

I had a near scare early last year. (Yes, I know I said this already.) It was nearly midterms (or was it finals?) and I had to come up with a plan of how to get to campus for them. Was actually considering getting a hotel room for a few days downtown (EXPENSIVE!!) and just camp out down there until everything blew over. Fortunately, it didn't come to that. Whew!

[*GrEGsBaBY22*]

I totally missed this thread and I live in NYC But I didn’t realize how much I and the rest if NYC depended on the MTA.... until it wasn’t there but I realized really quickly what I had to. I learned to carpool sometimes but from where I live near Pelham Parkway walking To Pelham Bay for an Hour 1/2Dance then walking Back wasn’t fun but I did save Money the was later used for a extra dance class. I guess NYC just tries adjusting to everything