Riots after Muhammad drawing

[Isley]

The whole week now, the news channels have been focusing much on the riots in the middle east after a Norwegian and a Danish newspaper published the prophet Muhammad as a terrorist in a cartoon drawing.

from TIME Magazine:
Protest over caricatures of the Prophet has become a channel for outrage over Iraq and a political weapon for Muslim regimes seeking support against the West



Some of the cartoons turned out to be caricatures because this is just in the Danish tradition. We make fun of the Queen, we make fun of politicians, we make fun of more or less everything. Of course, we didn't expect this kind of reaction, but I am sorry if some Muslims feel insulted. This was not directed at Muslims. I wanted to put this issue of self-censorship on the agenda and have a debate about it.

FLEMMING ROSE Culture editor of Denmark's Jyllands-Posten, who commissioned the drawings



These pictures aren't blasphemous, they're racist. I'm a very liberal Kuwaiti woman who cracks the odd joke about Islam, but I was extremely offended by these cartoons because I know what kind of society produced them. I am well educated and had a high-paying corporate job in Denmark, but I was still subjected to derogatory comments all the time because I look Middle Eastern. Every single second-generation Muslim Dane I met wanted to get the hell out. Why? They say, "We grew up here, but we feel unwelcome. We can't get jobs." Perhaps it's the same feeling that Jews felt at the time of the Nazis or black people in the U.S. in the '50s. It's just not funny. And I'm not even remotely religious.
But I have one question for the thousands of outraged Muslims. America kills thousands of Muslims, and you lose your head and withdraw ambassadors over a bunch of cartoons printed in a second-rate paper in a Nordic country with a population of 5 million? That's the true outrage.

SAMIA AL-DUAIJ Kuwaiti oil executive living in Belgium after two years in Denmark


The U.S. news media, by refusing to run these cartoons, are giving in to intellectual and religious terrorism. A separate standard is being applied here out of fear of physical retaliation. Whatever is fair to say about one group must be fair to say about another. The European papers are doing the right thing. They're being courageous. It is in the public's interest to see these cartoons that are causing so much outrage. When you see them, you see the extent of the overreaction. They are not nearly as bad as cartoons that routinely run in the Muslim media against Jews, Christians, the U.S. and Israel.

ALAN DERSHOWITZ Harvard law professor




I want to know what all of you think of this? Was it wrong to publish that cartoon?Are the muslims overreacting? Was the cartoon drawing a overstep? was it going to far, burning down two embassies?

[*Zara*]

ok well the cartoons in my opinion were totally wrong to publish they havnt got a right to slander our prophet like that that subject is totally sacred to us!
yes people have a right to freedom of press but it is not there for them to abuse this right!!

but i do not think that burning down embassies and rioting will fix anything this whole situation is adding fuel to the fire for radicals and muslims who are doing the burning are portraying the rest of muslims in a bad light!

im a muslim and while i think it is wrong but i dont think we should conter act the cartoons by hurting others!! we should act peacfully and if we want to protest peacefully!

so i think the cartoons were wrong to print ans shouldnt be done ever again i also do not think radical muslims should burn down embassies and create all this violence!!

[Andrew]

:rolleyes2

It's ironic that they would riot over a caricature, but not when a beheading is done in the name of Allah

[*Zara*]

well radicals will be radicals they dont account for all the muslim people!!!

[Isley]

I agree. This whole thing is escalating. Since Im from Norway, where the cartoon was published first, I feel protective. But it was a total overstep after my opinion. It should never been published. On the other hand, there is freedom of speech. So you are allowed to mean whatever on whatever subject you want. So if him or her thinks that he was a terrorist(which is a stupid thought after my opinon), she or her has the right to think so. But I won't excuse it. It wasn't the smartest thing to do, but do you deserve to be threatened or maybe even killed because of it? Should a embassy be burned down because of it?

I am pissed at the radicals who burned down the norwegian and danish embassy, but in a way I get why they are so upset.

[Andrew]

...they dont account for all the muslim people!!!

I know they don't.

All i'm saying is what is more "harmful" to the Islamic religion?: a cartoon drawing or when people misinterpret the message, and use that misinterpretation to justify their acts, despite it being the total opposite of the meaning, and in the process, depicts the wrong impression of the religion?

[*Zara*]

yeh i agree some ppl have way overreacted!! no one desreves to be threated because of this or killed!!! im pissed at the radicals too!! now muslims like me are going to be looked at again with concern and i will get comments nad backlash hmm u can never win on wither side!

All i'm saying is what is more "harmful" to the Islamic religion?: a cartoon drawing or when people misinterpret the message, and use that misinterpretation to justify their acts, despite it being the total opposite of the meaning, and in the process, depicts the wrong impression of the religion?

yeh i think it is more harmful that they are using the misinterpretation to justify their acts and therefore giving a wrong impression of islam and what it means!! their acts are just making it worse for muslims to just get on with their lives and show people what we are really like and not what the radicals are like

[Andrew]

Article <source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060206/ap_on_re_mi_ea/prophet_drawings;_ylt=AlCAgPCohmViQ9JAv_FIQJas0NUE ;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-)>:

KABUL, Afghanistan - Afghan security forces opened fire on demonstrators Monday, leaving at least four dead, as increasingly violent protests erupted around the world over published caricatures of Islam's Prophet Muhammad. European and Muslim politicians pleaded for calm.

The worst of the violence was outside Bagram, the main U.S. base in Afghanistan, with Afghan police firing on some 2,000 protesters as they tried to break into the heavily guarded facility, said Kabir Ahmed, the local government chief.

Two demonstrators were killed and five were injured, while eight police also were hurt, he said. No U.S. troops were involved in the clashes, the military said.

Afghan police also fired on protesters in the central city of Mihtarlam after a man in the crowd shot at them and others threw stones and knives, Interior Ministry spokesman Dad Mohammed Rasa said.

Two protesters were killed, and three other people were wounded, including two police, officials said. The demonstrators burned tires and threw stones at government offices.

The unrest also spread to East Africa as police in Somalia fired in the air to disperse stone-throwing protesters, triggering a stampede in which a teenager was killed and raising to six the number of deaths in protests related to the publication of the series of cartoons satirizing Islam's holiest figure.

[Isley]

I agree, nobody "wins" this. And I agree that this sets muslims in a bad light. But their religion is holy, and i get that. but a cartoon? that is overreacting, I get them being pissed and all but this only makes the space between the west and the middle east, wider. And then people will take sides.
Im not a muslim so i cant see it from a muslim point of view. And even though I try to be neutral, I can't be a 100%. Because punishing a nation for one mans actions is crazy in my eyes. I haven't done a thing to insult any muslim, still they burn my flag,maybe not even knowing where it is situated.

[*Zara*]

I agree, nobody "wins" this. And I agree that this sets muslims in a bad light. But their religion is holy, and i get that. but a cartoon? that is overreacting, I get them being pissed and all but this only makes the space between the west and the middle east, wider. And then people will take sides.
Im not a muslim so i cant see it from a muslim point of view. And even though I try to be neutral, I can't be a 100%. Because punishing a nation for one mans actions is crazy in my eyes. I haven't done a thing to insult any muslim, still they burn my flag,maybe not even knowing where it is situated.

it does make the space between the nations wider and this isnt good!! as im muslim i cant be 100% neutral either but trying too look at it from your point of view it is extremy bad that they are burning your countrys' flag and i think that is totally uncalled for!!

yeh all these deaths that have occured show us that this had escalated and many have overreacted but still i think that people shouldnt really attack prophet muhhamed as it is really sacred to us!! freedom of press but making sure the power doesnt get abused!!

i just hope people calm down step back and see that a cartoon isnt worth the deaths and burning things down!! yeh muslims were offended but causing these people harm in return is not what islam is about!

[Isley]

i agree zara, the press should have respect, and be so wise as not to publish it, or even draw it. What is the purpose? It is obvious that it is a provocation. And it is one of the most sacred things in islam, which makes it so much worse.

[*Zara*]

yeh i think deep down they knew they wouldnt get a good reaction to somehting like that!! it did provoke them!! fuel added to the fire!!

hopes that it will calm down dont want any others getting hurt!!

[Isley]

I didn't think it would get like this, its insane.

[*Zara*]

yeh it has got very out of hand it had the snowball effect not good!

[Kari]

:rolleyes2

It's ironic that they would riot over a caricature, but not when a beheading is done in the name of Allah
Sort of...isn't it?

I mean, I get it. This is very offending to very many people. Their religion was caricated and this was against the rules of the religion.

Now I am quick to think "Cry me a river", considering what it would be like if every time Christianity was mocked hell would break through like that, but then again, this could have been foreseen. In my opinion, it was just adding fuel to the fire...Though I don't really have understanding for the riots.

[Quinton]

Another thing you tend to find when situations like this occur is that anti-islamic sentiments will eventually come to the forefront. Outraged Muslims will show their anger in demonstrative ways thereby angering non-Muslims who will retaliate with anti-Islamic attacks as we've seen in Australia as well as Holland.

As the saying goes, violence begets violence.

[Quinton]

I just read an article about Iran setting up a competition for 12 artists to create cartoon parodies on the Holocaust to "test free speech". Obviously in retalliation against Denmark's Muhammad cartoons.

Going on face value, how is mocking the holocaust considered retribution against Denmark? Why don't they mock Danish pastries or something?

But on a more serious note, mocking 6 million deaths doesn't nearly come close to the Danish cartoons. If they really want to get even they should create 12 cartoons based on what they think God looks like.

Why wont they do that? Because people could care less. Mocking the holocaust is one way to piss people off and the aim of this exercise is to anger non-muslims just how they were angered. If things continue the way I see them continuing then sure enough the time is going to come when these people will start to mock the US events of September 11, 2001.

And as I said above, this isn't going to really achieve anything. All they're doing is festering anti-islamic sentiments. They're trying to get back at western media and as we all know, the western media has a way of making the western world think how they want them to think.

[OTH man]

dunop if its been mentioned but- i understand they are mad hell id be pissed if somebody drew Jesus like that but they asre saying its making a "violent stereotype" well they are burning buildings and stuff.. thats violence so they are proving the sterotype right...

[Kari]

I really find that sick and disturbing.
I read it tomorrow in the newspaper. It is like little children on the play ground. So you destroyed my sand castle, I will pee on yours...

But, as Quinton said, where is the relation? Humorizing Mohammed might be offensive, in a way...but a genozide. That's just sick!

[Andrew]

Religion complicates everything :rolleyes:

I remember a few years ago an artist did a painting of the Virgin Mary with elephant feces all over it or something, and it sparked a lot of controversy.

But back to this issue: just yesterday, 4 workers at some New York newspaper (I have to find out which one; I wasn't paying attention to the news a few hours ago) got fired for reprinting the cartoons. But I think this is kind of silly, being as the internet is a massive place. Anyone can google it and find it (which I have done; the cartoon is not that serious)

As for them using the holocaust, despite no correlation with Denmark; I think that's because they view us (being Western Civilization, Europe included with America) as the same thing. And the fact that the holocaust involved Jews which obviously has association with Israel.

As for solutions... I guess the natural solution would've been if they hadn't printed the cartoons at all.

But there's no working time-machine ATM, so what's done is done I guess. However, this is clearly a scenario of overreaction; who would've thought, with all the bombs dropping, a cartoon drawing would hit them the hardest? :shrugs:

[Annika.]

i think the people in those countries overreacted...
of course, the newspaper shouldn't print something like that, if I was very religious and someone would make silly jokes or somthing like that about jesus or god I'd be very angry too. But I WOULDN'T be so angry that I'd burn down houses and demonstrate. 3 people died, but there should be no victim, not because of a demonstration that is totally not neccessary.

[Ol'blueyes]

Didn't France republish it too?

[*Zara*]

yeh there was some republications which made them more angry but hopefully people will calm down and see the bigger picture in time yes making fun of my prophet wasnt a good thing to do and has angered many muslims but retaliating thee way they have by burning stuff down and threatening people will not work wither it is just confirming the sterotype of the so called radical muslim and making thigs worse for all parties concerned especially those muslims who do no condone this use of violence just to get heard!!

[Krazy]

I think it shouldn't have been published, i mean what did they get out of it?Didn't they think that it would offend muslims? Violence is not the way to go around things but being angry and upset,who can blame them. Though muslims dont think it's right to kill people in the name of Allah like someone was trying to point out. Every religion has some radicals and so does Islam and you cant just pin point that religion. When you mock the prophet,you mock all muslims.

[Isley]

Why they published it? It was a contest, thats what ive heard anyway. It may seem wierd but it was.

And now I am getting extremely tired of this. Okay so the cartoon is published, no one can take that back no matter what. Still they protest, and damage, and riot. Ok we get it now. Seriously.

I know this was an awful thing for the muslims. I get that. And i know it was an overstep. But done is done. We cant change it. And there is no reason anymore to be upset about it. We cant hold on this forever. What we should do instead of arguing and protesting, is just to be over and done with it.

I just dunno why the muslims have to attack Denmark as a country? Last I looked, it was only a few people who drew those cartoons.

And now the editor of the Norwegian magazine "Magazinet" is charged for blasphemy. That is just crazy! There shouldn't be a blasphemy law after my opinion. Im okay with freedom of religion. but blasphemy? in my mind that doesnt word doesnt exist. Being charged for blasphemy is for me something that should be stuck the 17th century.

Im not religious so I dont have a religious point of view in this case, but you dont have to be religious to see that this situation should be avoided.

argh.. i dunno i get so pissed about all this.

[Quinton]

And now I am getting extremely tired of this. Okay so the cartoon is published, no one can take that back no matter what. Still they protest, and damage, and riot. Ok we get it now. Seriously.That's true. But what they want are the names of the artists who drew the cartoons. Why? It's pretty obvious. They want them put to death. It's a serious matter for overt Muslims.

The other thing is the whole "freedom of speech" "freedom of expression" thing. Yeah it's ok to use that defence but you'd have to know just how deep the water is before you jump in. This whole affair seems more like a deliberate attempt to piss off the Muslim world than a bonafide freedom of speech exercise.

Religious or not, if someone has posted a caricature of Jesus I wouldn't be all that pissed about it. I'd be more like "well... a Jesus cartoon... interesting". Next topic. But then again religion isn't as important to me as it is for Muslims.

[tommygirl887]

Well like many mentioned, the cartoon shouldn't have been published in the first place. Especially since its about the most respected man in the religion. But like Maddy mentioned, whats done is done, and the radicals need to calm down and not burn everything in sight. There are ways other than violence to get a point across, and by going around terrorizing everything they're not giving people a better impression of themselves, or the religion in general.

[Andrea]

Wait, wait, let's back up here. Did I read that right? People DIED protesting a CARTOON?

Let's think about this, y'all.

Someone lost his or her *life* because he didn't like a *cartoon*.

Truly we've seen a new low in Muslim extremism. Why aren't strongly worded letters to the editor enough? For the love of Pete.

[Kay]

The other thing is the whole "freedom of speech" "freedom of expression" thing. Yeah it's ok to use that defence but you'd have to know just how deep the water is before you jump in. This whole affair seems more like a deliberate attempt to piss off the Muslim world than a bonafide freedom of speech exercise.


I like and agree with that!

I'm in a political mood so I'll say what I think of this thing.
I don't believe in violence in any form, I'm 100% against the wait and will always will be, however, we are [or most of us..] are educated people who know what means what to others. In Islam you can not go any worse than any way or form of talking badly about the prophet..[unless you include God.] How stupid, silly and just pure ignorant do you have to be to publish a picture like that? however silly, however small or undamaging it might have been...I will never believe that the editor or whoever is responsible did it simply for the art behind it...anyone who has any knowledge of the anger within most Muslims. wrong or right...would know better?
Not to mention the minister guy of Denmark not apologising for the cartoon..it was wrong, pure and simple...you cant get around it in any way...a simple sorry would have decreased the damages that are around right now.

Its just all silly...its the same God at the end damn it!

[*gwen*~*grover*]

my friend, who is muslim, pointed out to me that it is against islam to depict mohammad... so its not just a cartoon thats degregating the religion, its defying it...
ok, so i understand the anger (wait...) but i agree with Kay, it was stupid to publish in the first place. and i obviously do not condone the reactions to it. its absolutely rediculous... the denmark government should have apologized (even if they werent responsible for it... right, whatever to avoid a conflict) but as andrew said, whats done is done, and unfortunately, theres no way to reverse it...
and yeah, we also have to remember that the reaction was caused by religious fundamentalists... who unfortunately have the most power... and i would write about fundamentalism in a very idealistic sense, but that doesnt apply here... becuase, honestly, i have no clue what they can do about this. i dont want to play the blame game, so to speak, everyone is at fault, and at the same time didnt do anything wrong... i just have no clue what to think about any of this... and i dont want to end up blaming this on whole populations, bc i know they had nothing to do with it...
but i just really think that nothing can be done unless this escelates, which hopefully it wont. and hopefully no one will give it reason to

[Andrea]

Well, people are already dying in the protests, so I'm not sure how much more it could escalate, except in terms of volume.

its the same God at the endMany Christians and Jews would disagree with that. :)

we also have to remember that the reaction was caused by religious fundamentalists.I agree with this. The cartoon was obviously offensive, and deliberately so, but people had a choice in how to react, and they obviously made some very poor choices.

[Kay]

Many Christians and Jews would disagree with that

so will many muslims..but believing only one religion is right & the rest a re doomed to hell is silly.

I agree with this. The cartoon was obviously offensive, and deliberately so, but people had a choice in how to react, and they obviously made some very poor choices.

How else were they going to react? no one doubted it was going to be exterme

[*gwen*~*grover*]

Well, people are already dying in the protests, so I'm not sure how much more it could escalate, except in terms of volume.
i mean into a war...

I agree with this. The cartoon was obviously offensive, and deliberately so, but people had a choice in how to react, and they obviously made some very poor choices.
youre right, i agree, but that is how they reacted, and now how can... someone (i dont want to say 'we' or any particular country) stop or tone down the situation

[Isley]

I agree with the most of you.

But it amazes me how much hatred this whole thing creating. I mean, the non-muslims are getting angry at the muslims for reacting the way they do, and the muslims are angry at the people responsible for publishing the cartoons. But I have to say that the extremists muslims are overreacting. When Danish imams go down to the middle east and try to stir up large crowds yelling out how much they hate denmark and creating even more hatred, that is unacceptable for me. I think it its normal for them to react and be opposed those cartoons being published, but trying to fire up a crowd to create hatred is too low for me. it is not helping on the reputation i can tell you that. But it is sad that this has become a painting of the muslim world.

[Noah]

Their whole response is so hypocritical.. First off, the Quran describes Mohammed as a regular person with human characterists; one who feels regular human emotions: rage, jealousy, anger, happiness.. and the basic tenet of their religion is that "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His Prophet" As everyone knows Islam is vehemently against idol worship because this takes away from the worship of Allah as the only God.

What they are essentially doing by protesting this is deifying Mohammed and placing him before Allah which flies directly in the face of everything they stand for. Let's be honest, tho, we don't typically associate prudent, logical behavior with religious fundamentalists to begin with, now do we?

Secondly, the Quran teaches that there will always be "non-believers" and that it was the job of Allah to ultimately deal with these people. It isn't the job of Mohammed's follower's to get all mental over misrepresentations of the prophet and threaten the lives of innocent people.

There's my two cents on the whole dealio.

[Andrea]

so will many muslims..but believing only one religion is right & the rest a re doomed to hell is silly.Obviously billions of people, including myself, disagree with that.

How else were they going to react? no one doubted it was going to be extermeWell, right. They lived up to a lot of people's negative stereotypes. But they had a choice in the matter. They could've bombarded the newspaper with sternly written letters to the editor, for example. Instead thousands of people collectively decided to act crazy, and a bunch of people are dead now. Over a cartoon. It's truly ludicrous.

[Andrew]

Well, for the sake of argument, what if it were a cartoon depicting Jesus and Christianity (and all forms) as some sort of cult (or some crude sacrilegious thing)?

Although there probably wouldn't be the extremity of "burning/bombing buildings" (although these days what can't happen), I'm sure there would be something.


But... yeah... overreaction :nono:

[Andrea]

what if it were a cartoon depicting Jesus and Christianity (and all forms) as some sort of cult (or some crude sacrilegious thing)?There have been prominent art shows with exhibits containing a Christian crucifixion scene made entirely out of elephant poop.

Please let me know how many people died in the protest of that?

[Quinton]

Knowing fate... probably 1. *shrugs*

but yeah, Popetown anybody?

[Kay]

You can't compare the religions though...Jesus is shown in movies, an actor is chosen to portray him that has never happened in Islam & never will be allowed ...its not about the cartoon its about what the cartoon symbolizes, one of the religions biggest...rules? whatever you want to call it..was broken..people are pi$$ed!

The reaction is silly beyond words, I hate how they're reacting, its childish, and stupid & just continuing on this never ending hate in the world...but realistically not expecting it is just…too stupid for words

[Andrea]

I'm really not understanding your point here, Kay. I'm sorry. So you're saying (please correct me if I'm wrong!!) that the rioting and death are the fault of the Danish free press for mentioning something potentially offensive to Muslims? Is Islam a special case then - the only religion/culture that can't be freely discussed in a free society because we're all afraid that the more radical element will start rioting? I don't think that's a solution either. I think people need to be held accountable for breaking the law, and that's that.

[Quinton]

I can see where Kay's coming from and as I've said before, I know as much about Islam as the next guy. The whole thing about creating images of their God is punishable by death. Muslims understand that to be an absolute. Much like Christianity's ten commandments.

Is Islam a special case? Probably. Can their religion/culture be freely discussed in a free society? From what I understand, yes. The thing that triggered this whole incident is that rule (or law or what have you). Don't create images of Muhammad. It's something sacred to them and the Danish media knew that when they comisisoned the cartoons. Are they to blame for this whole thing? No. Guns dont kill people, people kill people. And yes, people need to be held accountable for their actions no matter what the cause.

[Andrew]

I'm not religious, so i don't really know, but isn't the Muslim rule similar to the commandment of "no graven images" (or something like that)?

I guess it goes with the extremity, or rather how much the followers take in the... "rules" per se.

And yes, people need to be held accountable for their actions no matter what the cause.

Yeah, but the radicals are seeking death as consequence.

[tommygirl887]

I'm not religious, so i don't really know, but isn't the Muslim rule similar to the commandment of "no graven images" (or something like that)?


Yeah, pretty much. It is believed that the only one you should be worshipping is God, so that obviously rules out idol/image worship of any kind. A reason why you don't see Muhammad's (may peace be upon him) picture anywhere or a sculpture of him or anything is because its believed if there was, people now have an image of him in their head when they're praying, and they shouldn't be praying to him, they should be praying to God.

[Kay]

I'm really not understanding your point here, Kay. I'm sorry. So you're saying (please correct me if I'm wrong!!) that the rioting and death are the fault of the Danish free press for mentioning something potentially offensive to Muslims? Is Islam a special case then - the only religion/culture that can't be freely discussed in a free society because we're all afraid that the more radical element will start rioting? I don't think that's a solution either. I think people need to be held accountable for breaking the law, and that's that.

Freedom of speech, free press..freedom in general shouldn't be used as an excuse for people to cause problems, its meant to help and be within reason, what the Danish press did was simply wrong you can't get around that..like Quinton said

"Guns dont kill people, people kill people"

"The whole thing about creating images of their God is 2punishable by death. Muslims understand that to be an absolute. Much like Christianity's ten commandments."

Like the action of the newspaper [& the goverment not realsing their mistake] is unexcusable and silly, the riots are

[Quinton]

I'm not religious, so i don't really know, but isn't the Muslim rule similar to the commandment of "no graven images" (or something like that)?

I guess it goes with the extremity, or rather how much the followers take in the... "rules" per se.



Yeah, but the radicals are seeking death as consequence.I guess you can liken some of their actions to the very extremist Christians who commit acts of violence under God's name. Albeit, theirs is on a much smaller scale.

Personally, I don't think these people (the cartoonists) should be put to death and I do believe Muslims should acclimate into these modern times. But I do understand their thought process a little better than I did before.

[OTH man]

I don't think anyone should die.. and I dont know what the laws are where the cartoon was drawn I know here that might be Religious Prosecution? or going the other way maybe Freedom of the Press?

yes it was very wrong, but it was even more wrong that they have been rioting burning flags, killing people, all b/c theres a comic saying they are violent, well thanks for proving that right?

[Quinton]

OTH man, to make a long story short:

a Danish newspaper last year got 12 people together to draw cartoons of what they thought the Muslim God, Muhammad looks like. According to Muslim law, it's seriously against their rules to draw any picture of their God (one of the pictures had Muhammed with a bomb in his turban). Anyone who does (according to Muhammad) should be put to death.

Early this year other newspapers around the world started reporting on it (and reprinting the cartoons) which angered the Muslim people, hence the violence and protesting. The media world claim freedom of speech whilst the Muslim nation consider it blasphemous, insulting and culturally insensitive.

[marianne]

This situation is starting to annoy the hell out of me. It's so unneccesary.
First of all (I heard this on the radio in a discussion about this very topic) there are actually muslims that have Mohammad pictures on their walls.. so this rule whatever thing clearly isn't a rule that applies to everyone, just extreme dudes.

Secondly, (I'm norwegian) the situation is 'causing racism to pop up everywhere. Muslims living in norway that are using the norwegian flag as doormats in their stores are of course pissing alot of norwegians off, and I hate to say it, but it's starting to get to me too. If they are going to be this dis-respectful then get the hell out of our country.

On another note, I know how Norway is, because I live here (duh). When it comes to newspapers and etc. etc. Norway is such a small country, the press is at total relax. I highly doubt that those pictures were posted or re-posted or whoever posted them first to trigger any sort of reaction. Nothing like this EVER happens in Norway. We are a country that likes debates, to discuss things. I guess if you are from for example America you will say that they should have foreseen it, and if it had been posted in any US newspaper I would have agreed, but it's NORWAY. NOBODY lives here, and it was posted in a christian newspaper first, that like.. 12 people subscribe to. I highly doubt that any thought was given to the situation, and I understand that it wasn't. We're just a country used to being by ourself, sort of seperate from the rest of the world. I'm honestly surprised that they found about the cartoon excisting at all.

And as Isley(?) I'm feeling sort of protective. And no matter what the muslim religion is, I do not agree with their actions at any point or lever or anything at all. They are taking something that they really shouldn't have bothered to care about at all in the first place to this extreme level and they are just so down-right stupid. Get over it already! There ain't nothing we can do. And if they think it is they can build the damned time machine themselves because Norwegian technology hasn't gotten that far.

[Ol'blueyes]

How is it that it is illegal to have pictures of Muhammed drawn to a certain extent but it's ok for them to behead people on their television channels?

[Isley]

And as Isley(?) I'm feeling sort of protective. And no matter what the muslim religion is, I do not agree with their actions at any point or lever or anything at all. They are taking something that they really shouldn't have bothered to care about at all in the first place to this extreme level and they are just so down-right stupid. Get over it already! There ain't nothing we can do. And if they think it is they can build the damned time machine themselves because Norwegian technology hasn't gotten that far.

ok, i didn't quite get this one Marianne, and btw just call me Maddy or Madeleine if you like ;)
you mean you're on the same level with me or disagree?
anyway, at first i thought it was wrong to print those cartoons but seeing what they did kinda made things go out in the open in a way. Things that NEEDED to be discussed.like the muhammad drawings. I think it is appaling that the italian minister(of something) had to step down from his position just for wearing a t-shirt with muhammad on it!! and next to that the italian embassy in(uh dont remember) whatever.. got burned down!! I mean, get a grip!! you cant trash and burn stuff just cos you disagree! if the whole world would have done that, there wouldn't have been many standing buildings left. And it was a cartoon, omg it is overreacting. And the typical muslim stereotype has been proved right once again.

[Quinton]

This situation is starting to annoy the hell out of me. It's so unneccesary.
First of all (I heard this on the radio in a discussion about this very topic) there are actually muslims that have Mohammad pictures on their walls.. so this rule whatever thing clearly isn't a rule that applies to everyone, just extreme dudes.

Secondly, (I'm norwegian) the situation is 'causing racism to pop up everywhere. Muslims living in norway that are using the norwegian flag as doormats in their stores are of course pissing alot of norwegians off, and I hate to say it, but it's starting to get to me too. If they are going to be this dis-respectful then get the hell out of our country.

On another note, I know how Norway is, because I live here (duh). When it comes to newspapers and etc. etc. Norway is such a small country, the press is at total relax. I highly doubt that those pictures were posted or re-posted or whoever posted them first to trigger any sort of reaction. Nothing like this EVER happens in Norway. We are a country that likes debates, to discuss things. I guess if you are from for example America you will say that they should have foreseen it, and if it had been posted in any US newspaper I would have agreed, but it's NORWAY. NOBODY lives here, and it was posted in a christian newspaper first, that like.. 12 people subscribe to. I highly doubt that any thought was given to the situation, and I understand that it wasn't. We're just a country used to being by ourself, sort of seperate from the rest of the world. I'm honestly surprised that they found about the cartoon excisting at all.

And as Isley(?) I'm feeling sort of protective. And no matter what the muslim religion is, I do not agree with their actions at any point or lever or anything at all. They are taking something that they really shouldn't have bothered to care about at all in the first place to this extreme level and they are just so down-right stupid. Get over it already! There ain't nothing we can do. And if they think it is they can build the damned time machine themselves because Norwegian technology hasn't gotten that far.
Absolutely true. I think my country is similar to yours. And as much as some Muslims feel justified in trashing any other culture, they're only doing themselves harm in the long run by fueling anti-Muslim hatred which has started to rear its head in some places.

I can seriously see at some point a race war starting in which non-Muslims will get so fed up they'll start lashing out. Scary thought but growing ever more possible.

[*Zara*]

i so hope a race war doesnt start being muslim will become so hard!!

and those ppl that execute the ppl on tv are wrong i agree those r just exteremists and i have a hatred towards them too for bringinh other muslims down with them!!

god this thing has jus blown up i do wish the ppl would get over it now hmm i want the riots and killing to stop

[marianne]

ok, i didn't quite get this one Marianne, and btw just call me Maddy or Madeleine if you like ;)
you mean you're on the same level with me or disagree?


All I ment is that I think you wrote something about feeling protective because you are from Norway in this whole situation, and I feel the same way.

Edit: Found the post:
I agree. This whole thing is escalating. Since Im from Norway, where the cartoon was published first, I feel protective. But it was a total overstep after my opinion. It should never been published. On the other hand, there is freedom of speech. So you are allowed to mean whatever on whatever subject you want. So if him or her thinks that he was a terrorist(which is a stupid thought after my opinon), she or her has the right to think so. But I won't excuse it. It wasn't the smartest thing to do, but do you deserve to be threatened or maybe even killed because of it? Should a embassy be burned down because of it?

;)

[Isley]

oh, now i get it! okay:D good to know;)

[nadia101]

OTH man, to make a long story short:

a Danish newspaper last year got 12 people together to draw cartoons of what they thought the Muslim God, Muhammad looks like. According to Muslim law, it's seriously against their rules to draw any picture of their God (one of the pictures had Muhammed with a bomb in his turban). Anyone who does (according to Muhammad) should be put to death.

Early this year other newspapers around the world started reporting on it (and reprinting the cartoons) which angered the Muslim people, hence the violence and protesting. The media world claim freedom of speech whilst the Muslim nation consider it blasphemous, insulting and culturally insensitive.


Umm........muslim men don't wear turbans.......that's in the Indian culture. So muslim Indians do but no others. So they should at least get their facts right.

Also, there is a big difference between insuinating that a muslim is a terrorist (which is now a stereotype thanks to 9/11) and claiming that the muslim prophet is a muslim.

Mohammed is a very sacred person to over a billion people around the world. It is someone they cherish and respect and believe in. Do draw such an offending picture like that is morally wrong. The guy died thousands of years ago, let him rest in piece, there is nothing proving that. It's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Another thing, only a couple thousand of muslims in the world have shown acts of terrorisme out of over a BILLION muslims and now everyone assumes they are terrorists. And everyone assumes that all muslims are violent and that is the justification for the cartoons?

Only a small percentage of muslims is reacting violently to the cartoons as well, again, giving the impression to the Western world that all muslims are reacting in this fashion. 95% of Muslims in the world have nothing to do with terrorism and thoses same 95% of Muslims are not reacting violently whatsoever but only deeply hurt and offended.

So, once again, as soon as a certain group of muslims does something, everyone assumes that ALL of them do..........that's called stereotyping and right after 9/11. A lot of people that I know, freely stated that they are scared of Arab men.

How would all Christians feel if a Jew or a Budhist drew an offending cartoon about Jesus Christ.

As soon as we see a Nazi sign anywhere, it's automatically discrimination and racism and that person is terrible. But offensive cartoons about someone's prophet are being publish worldwide and people are saying "I don't understand why they're so mad??" I definitely agree that the violence is not a good way to solve the issue but they have every right to be angry! Remember, that is only a small percentage of Muslims. Islam has always tought it's believers to be a good person, not to kill, not to use violence...........

[*Zara*]

oooo agree with wot u sed 100% nadia!!! i hate ppl sterotyping muslims

[Isley]

okay. I do agree with you Nadia about some things.

We know muhammed is a sacred person. And people should have respect for that, but if people want to think that mohammed were a terrorist they have every right to think that. Its their right to think or feel different about things.

And I want to bring up what Marianne said, that Norway and Denmark are small countries and they never imagined this to become a huge religion issue.

and about this stereotype. as we know. There is no actual stereotype of anything. There are always differences, but it seems to be the majority of muslims in the mid east that are actually rebelling. Of course the media can exaggerate but there are very large crowds of people that have caused all this trouble. And even though there are billions of muslims in the world, im talking about the ones in the mid east. and when you say, a couple of thousand.. thats a lot of people, maybe not out of the billions and billions of muslims, but its still a lot of people!
And frankly i am getting sick and tired of it. I dont have anything against the people who act nicely, and thats not whats the thread is about either , its about the riots after the muhammad drawing.

And those people. I have no respect for. They are spinning a web for themselves. It is obvious and only justified for people to get mad at the ones who burn important legal buildings and offend inhabitants of a whole country by stepping and burning their flag. For something they didn't do.

I feel like the more I try to justify and explain what i feel i get a smack in the face for not having respect for religion. But what about my country? What about those 4 million people who have absolutely nothing to do with this?
And there are actually many muslims who have pictures of muhammad, and who worship muhammad in that form.

The world is tough , you cant expect that you will go through it without any problems. and i just wanna make this clear, I do relate to how offended muslims are but for me, it can seem like they just want to have somthing to fight over when everybody involved had apoligezed and they are still rioting.

edit, i wanted to bring in a quote from th frontpost.

The U.S. news media, by refusing to run these cartoons, are giving in to intellectual and religious terrorism. A separate standard is being applied here out of fear of physical retaliation. Whatever is fair to say about one group must be fair to say about another. The European papers are doing the right thing. They're being courageous. It is in the public's interest to see these cartoons that are causing so much outrage. When you see them, you see the extent of the overreaction. They are not nearly as bad as cartoons that routinely run in the Muslim media against Jews, Christians, the U.S. and Israel.

[B]ALAN DERSHOWITZ Harvard law professor

[Quinton]

Nadia, you're right. People do need to be understanding of other cultures. And one of the problems is where the beliefs of one culture negate the beliefs of another. That's not the situation here of course.

In saying that, I highly doubt anyone here buys into the whole 'all Muslims are terrorists' and 'all Muslims are going out committing violence on other people' notions. And nobody's saying that. We all know the acts of the few don't necessarily reflect the views of the whole.

How would all Christians feel if a Jew or a Budhist drew an offending cartoon about Jesus Christ.Upset, angry and downright pissed. Take the "South Park Bloody Mary" episode. It has pissed off a whole lot of Christians. But at the end of the day the majority will deal and move on. As will more than likely happen with the Muslim population (be it Indian, Pakistani, Austrian or whatever).

Isley makes a very good point though: this thread is about the Riots after the Cartoons were published (albiet much much after). But of course one can't effectively discuss that without delving into the history of why it's come about.

[nadia101]

I see your points. And I understand what this thread is about but when I see negative posts commenting the islamic culture, it makes me feel somewhat offended. I'm only 1/4 muslim, but there is a lot of racism out there and I wanted to make my point clear.

Isley, you mentioned that it is someone's right to think or feel different things........it's definitely true but racism/discrimation is not a right. Therefore printing a cartoon that offends over a billion people in the world is not right.

Moving on to the situation of the riots: A lot of people think it's an overexagerating. People have every right to be angry and offended.
They have every right to nonviolently ask for an apology or to come forth with a civil petition to get these cartoons removed.

You guys aren't muslim, so ofcourse you don't understand how offended these people are but comparing it to Jesus Christ who has been depicted in millions of movies and books is not proving anything.

Also, when you state that the entire population of your country is being insulted, it's perfectly true and I completely agree with what you're saying. You have a lot in common with the other muslims that have nothing to do with the riots. Denmark is retaliating by burning some of the arab countries flags as well. So it's become a two-way street.

Also, this statement that you made:

And there are actually many muslims who have pictures of muhammad, and who worship muhammad in that form.

There aren't, the Quran encouranges people not too.

Also, everyone involved HASN"T apologized, that's part of the problem. Some people are just adding fuel to the fire......like the Italian minister who openly said he was fine with the drawings.......he was let go because he was being racist and discriminatory not for illegitimate reasons.

No one has apologized and I'm sure it would help if they did.

That Quote you posted simply proves my point, written by an american, an obvious Bush supporter. He's not part of the religion, he has no right to say wether people are offended or not. Or wether they are overexagerating.

I completely understand that this thread is about the riots, but it can't be an excuse for everyone to moan about how violent muslims are and how they are only proving the cartoons right.

The violence is utterly and completely wrong and the people that are doing it are completely stupid. Just like the terrorists of 9/11 and Saddam Hussein are. Whichever their religion may be.

I cannot wait for it to stop but I feel that it won't anytime soon. The people that are causing all the drama aren't getting what they want obviously.......which is an apology and a removal of the cartoon. I'm not saying that they can just demand what they want and that the way they're doing it is right but it is definitely understandable.

What I do support are the other 95% of Muslims that are trying to take this in a very calm manner........although deeply offended, they are the educated and intelligent people of society. And I deeply appreciate and respect their effort in keeping our world civilized.

When everyone else seems to be aiming for violence.

[Isley]

Nadia, I apologize for being so harsh. I think actually we have very similar views on the case , I maybe just misunderstood you a bit.


Isley, you mentioned that it is someone's right to think or feel different things........it's definitely true but racism/discrimation is not a right. Therefore printing a cartoon that offends over a billion people in the world is not right.

what i meant was that people has the right to think whatever about the the cartoon. Of course i dont justify it, but if people think its right, wrong or they dont care, thats their opinion. and you have the right to have your own opinion.

And what is really tragic is all the lives that have been lost in this. It is so unecessary.

It is very difficult to be neutral on this subject, cos everybody has a opinon about something. Like I hate how this has exploded but at the same time the cartoons was step outside the limits of the freedom of speech.

Religion is a very difficult subject. Because it is so important to a huge part of the world. And there is gonna be conflicts. Because there are often big differences.

I dunno what to say. I get so frustrated. Most of all because of the damaging and the lives lost. Now there is nothing to do, the cartoon is publish and it is public knowledge around the world. But what will it take to get the extremists to calm down? an apology from the Norwegian and Danish government is out of the question, and when jyllands posten havent apologized yet, its not very likely that they will suddenly do it now. And the extremist will certainly not apologize for the riots, so what is there to do with it?

[nadia101]

I completely agree with you Maddy. It's such a difficult subject to tackle and it really sucks that all thoses people have died and there's so much chaos and drama in the world!

Ugh, I just wish it would stop! It's really frustrating that people feel that the only way to deal with something is by causing riots!

I love your icons by the way! Go OTH! :)

[Isley]

aww i know how you feel, it is really tragic. I wish it would stop too.

aww thanks! Oth rocks doesnt it?:D