"Bush Backs Amendment To Ban Gay Marriage" [Archive]

Andrew

06-04-2006, 01:06 PM

Source: Yahoo! (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060604/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush;_ylt=AtrfhLBKBNmeU95jiwHI_hSs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMT A3OXIzMDMzBHNlYwM3MDM-)

WASHINGTON - President Bush on Saturday backed a resolution to amend the Constitution to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman even though the idea has little chance of being passed in the Senate.

"Ages of experience have taught us that the commitment of a husband and a wife to love and to serve one another promotes the welfare of children and the stability of society," Bush said in his Saturday radio address. "Marriage cannot be cut off from its cultural, religious and natural roots without weakening this good influence on society."

Democrats say Senate floor time is being wasted on the issue, and accuse Republicans of making a pre-midterm election appeal to social conservatives whose votes were key to Bush's re-election.

This November, initiatives banning same-sex marriages are expected to be on the ballot in Idaho, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Virginia and Wisconsin.

"Sadly, President Bush is playing election-year politics with this divisive issue," the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said Friday. "He is shamelessly using this ploy to energize his right-wing base. We should never rewrite the Constitution to enshrine intolerance."

The White House said Bush did not devote his radio address to the issue or decide to host a presidential event Monday to again endorse the amendment because it is politically expedient, but because there's a vote on it scheduled next week in the Senate.

"On Monday, I will meet with a coalition of community leaders, constitutional scholars, family and civic organizations and religious leaders," Bush said in urging Congress to pass the amendment and send it to the states for ratification. "They're Republicans, Democrats and independents who've come together to support this amendment."

The amendment would prohibit states from recognizing same-sex marriages. To become law, the proposal would need two-thirds support in the Senate and House, and then would have to be ratified by at least 38 state legislatures.

Bush said the amendment would fully protect marriage from being redefined, while leaving state legislatures free to make their own choices in defining legal arrangements other than marriage.

It stands little chance of passing the 100-member Senate, where proponents are struggling to get even 50 votes. Several Republicans oppose the measure, and so far only one Democrat — Sen. Ben Nelson (news, bio, voting record) of Nebraska — has said he will vote for it.

Acknowledging that emotions often run hot in this debate, Bush urged calm.

"As this debate goes forward, we must remember that every American deserves to be treated with tolerance, respect and dignity," he said. "All of us have a duty to conduct this discussion with civility and decency toward one another, and all people deserve to have their voices heard."

David Buckel, Marriage Project director of Lambda Legal, a national organization working to protect the rights of lesbians, gay men and others, said the amendment would be damaging to the lives of same-sex couples and families, which raise millions of children.

"It would brand lesbian and gay men as legally inferior individuals," he said. "It would write into the supreme law of the land that this group of people are inferior and when it's the law, it's a message to everyone else in society that they have license to discriminate."

In his radio address, Bush struck back at judges who have overturned state laws similar in intent to the proposed legislation.

"Unfortunately, activist judges and some local officials have made an aggressive attempt to redefine marriage in recent years," the president said.

Bush said there is broad consensus in America to protect the institution of marriage.

Voters in 19 states have approved amendments to their state constitutions that protect the traditional definition of marriage, he said. Moreover, he said, 45 of the 50 states have either a state constitutional amendment or statute defining marriage as the union of a man and a woman.

oclover24

06-04-2006, 01:14 PM

Bush is lame.

While this is a hot issue, there is so much more to be dealt with right now. The Dems are right on the fact that floor time is being wasted.

OTH man

06-04-2006, 07:23 PM

how can u say this isnt an important issue?

i personally love the fact hes backing this trying to ban it, and i know poeple on FB will hate me cuzza that but meh

its already in the dictionary as "Between a man and a woman" and really theres an overwhelming number of petitions trying ot ban gay marrige that it would be stupid and almost impossible to ignore, the fact that this has all happend with Bush in office is jsut going to give people another reason to hate him, but thats just stupid to blame him

Ashlyn

06-04-2006, 07:54 PM

When you fall in love, Kevin, I hope you get to marry that person, whatever sex that person may be.

*sigh* I agree, Bush is lame, this is a waste of the senate's time, and I don't think gay rights issues should be put to a vote. The majority can't be expected to uphold the rights of the minority.

OTH man

06-04-2006, 08:24 PM

Kay

06-04-2006, 08:30 PM

Just when you think the world is moving forward something like this happens and its like no no wait...maybe we should accept those people!

Gay people can live together, can have kids together, they fall in love, they're the exact same as straight people..whats the point of adding yet another wall between humans!

& the whole definition thing..please!..gay went from meaning nice to meaning happy to meaning homosexual...change the meaning of marriage..people won't mind!

OTH man

06-04-2006, 08:40 PM

seriously, it ment nice at one point? sorry, anyways back on topic...

i can almost garentee someone would care if u changed the definintion

and just to show you all why this is coming up, my mom works for a state rep and every political event there is a petition booth trying to abn gay marrige. also in the last month ive gotten 2 calls about if we want to be on a list of people trying to ban it, obviously i cant make that call, my parents have to but its just showing you that this is a hot subject and always has been for at least the last 5 years, so dont think it is out of the blue

Kay

06-04-2006, 08:44 PM

Yeah it did...Old English!

People were against Black & white mixing..there was a whole riot about that...and in the end accepting one for themselves won out..if people thought No! we wont change the rules that stood for so long where would we be now?

OTH man

06-04-2006, 08:47 PM

okay, i see you point but lets not forget:

"I have a dream that one day my children will be judged not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character"

being gay is a character-trait, being black or white or hispanic is not, so i dont really think thoes relate too well

Kay

06-04-2006, 08:51 PM

So we have to wait until the next Martin Luthor King comes along?

& thats abit of unfair thing to say..you can't help being gay as much as you can help being black or white..its part of who you are, why should one change to have what they rightly deserve?

*Ashlee*

06-04-2006, 08:51 PM

this is just, not cool! Canada is going to do a re-vote in the fall! I knew Harper and the conservatives were going to stir the pot for this one! Harper plus Bush out to make Canmerica lol

Ashlyn

06-04-2006, 08:55 PM

How does it really effect you, though? How does it hurt you if gay people are allowed to be married? You know, at one point, interracial marriage was illegal, and people used phrases from the bible to back up their point. Now, that seems ridiculous and I just hope that one day people will feel the same way about homosexual marriage.

Oh, I don't believe we should be allowed to vote on this sort of thing, mostly because I don't believe it should be a matter up for consideration by the masses. I mean, would we allow a community to vote on, say, not letting interracial marriage? No.

I agree, Kara... being gay isn't any different than being black or white, and even if it is, even if you believe that it's a "chosen" thing, you have no right to say who can get married, who can be in love, who can have sex. Kevin, you would never want anybody to tell you you couldn't marry the person you love, so why would you want to do that to somebody else. Doesn't the bible say to treat people like you'd want to be treated?

*Ashlee*

06-04-2006, 08:58 PM

oh by vote i mean in the house of commons! the government parties will vote etc

I totally and 100 percent support homosexual marriage! I can see what you are saying Merv but at the same time, there are theories that being homosexual is a genetetic trait, its not just a character trait! Those can be changed to a degree. People who are selfish can learn to be more unselfish etc Homosexual people should be entitled to every single right we have. We have the right to marry the one that we love so they should have that right regardless of who it is. Black/white. Male/Female!

Andrew

06-04-2006, 09:29 PM

There’s famine, poverty, genocide (in Africa), AIDS epidemic (in general, but more specifically in Africa and Asia), a pending possibility of Bird Flu epidemic, warfare, soldiers dying, terrorism, lack of funding for security in major cities, underpaid teachers/cops/firemen/medical related occupations, lack of medical assistance, lack of actual medicine (production of vaccine for the aforementioned Bird Flu and just in general, e.g. affordable medications for senior citizens), lack of money for public schools, inflated educational (college) tuition, inflated oil prices, excessive dependency on oil (and not finding forms of renewable energy), global warming, New Orleans (which still pretty much looks the same despite a year's passing), corruption within world governments, rising percentage in obesity within the U.S., various cardiovascular related diseases/disorders/issues in epidemic proportions, lack of jobs, the economy’s in a hole, everyday life from a financial standpoint is getting more difficult, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, the middle class is practically disappearing, etc. etc. etc.

But forget all that… let’s just focus on restricting the rights of marriage for a couple that is very much in love, but both persons just happen to be of the same sex.

:rolleyes2

Give me a freaking break. Those opposing it act as if the idea of “gay marriage” were health-detrimental. But in reality it only stems from religious belief; don’t try to BS by bringing up "traditionalism."

And about “Traditional Marriages”: half of them end up in divorce. So much for “sacred union,” huh? :sarcasm:

OTH man

06-05-2006, 05:07 PM

if half regular marriges dont work, your guna have to think half of gay marrieges wont work also.

also in ur list at the top you put "ect." and one of thoes is gay marrige, i mean given todays society it is a big issue that either way people will be upset about

oclover24

06-05-2006, 05:22 PM

Wow, I am going to have a lot to say...

how can u say this isnt an important issue?
It's an important issue, but not at the moment. Andrew posted a list of things we need to be dealing with right now, as opposed to gay marriage.

There’s famine, poverty, genocide (in Africa), AIDS epidemic (in general, but more specifically in Africa and Asia), a pending possibility of Bird Flu epidemic, warfare, soldiers dying, terrorism, lack of funding for security in major cities, underpaid teachers/cops/firemen/medical related occupations, lack of medical assistance, lack of actual medicine (production of vaccine for the aforementioned Bird Flu and just in general, e.g. affordable medications for senior citizens), lack of money for public schools, inflated educational (college) tuition, inflated oil prices, excessive dependency on oil (and not finding forms of renewable energy), global warming, New Orleans (which still pretty much looks the same despite a year's passing), corruption within world governments, rising percentage in obesity within the U.S., various cardiovascular related diseases/disorders/issues in epidemic proportions, lack of jobs, the economy’s in a hole, everyday life from a financial standpoint is getting more difficult, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, the middle class is practically disappearing, etc. etc. etc.

I think for most people, those are hot topics that need to be dealt with before we start tackling the gay marriage debate. Okay, soliders are dying in Iraq, bird flu may come to American and kill millions, and more, while Bush starts up with the whole gay marriage thing again? He needs to focus on what is important at the moment.

When you fall in love, Kevin, I hope you get to marry that person, whatever sex that person may be.

How does it really effect you, though? How does it hurt you if gay people are allowed to be married? You know, at one point, interracial marriage was illegal, and people used phrases from the bible to back up their point. Now, that seems ridiculous and I just hope that one day people will feel the same way about homosexual marriage.

Amen to those statements, Ashlyn!

Andrew

06-05-2006, 05:30 PM

Fair enough. The percentage of divorce within gay-marriages can rise. But that's not the point; those opposing it are doing so to "protect the traditionalistic connotations" of marriage between a man and a woman, when there isn't much to protect in the first place.

And you're right; it will be an issue either way.

It's a sad state in the world when society does more to restrict and take away basic rights rather than granting them and/or focusing on issues that are more important, affecting people on a wider scale, in a harmful and physical sense.

*Liz*

06-05-2006, 05:36 PM

Why should people care who others marry... I read in the paper that a woman married a snake in India... a snake for crying out load.

If two people love each other no one should have the right to tell them they can´t marry each other, NO ONE

tommygirl887

06-05-2006, 06:20 PM

The fact that whatever high percentage of male/female marriages doesn't mean that same-sex marriages will have a higher or lower percentage. Just because someone likes a person of the same sex, that makes them less possible to have a successful marriage? No offense, but that's kind of discriminatory. What about same sex couples makes it so that they won't have a successful marriage? You can't base it on what sex it is they love.. marriages end for various reasons, you can't say "Oh, well they're gay, there's no way in hell their marriage will last."

BellaBlack

06-05-2006, 08:09 PM

I agree...Bush is lame. I don't really want to get into the whole gay marriage thing, but I am for it. If that is what makes two people happy, they should deserve it. So what if they are the same sex? I would rather they find their true love than to be with a woman or man of the opposite sex they don't love. Bush should be focusing on bigger issues *coughendingthewarcough*

ReyFlower

06-05-2006, 09:58 PM

~Roger¤Davies~

06-06-2006, 06:12 AM

FYI Continuing the argument will get you no where... There was threads about this subject months ago... and it was not preaty.

Just because a male loves a male and a female a female, why should they not be able to have the same rights as a male and female. After all it wont be harming anyone. Kevin what harm would it give you if you had a same sex couple living beside you? It wouldnt. So you would see them kissing good bye BIG FREAKING WHOOPY DOO DA DAY. (okay that was childish and all but it works). I freakin hate the fact that Canada is going to be going back to the house of commons with this too. But you know I saw it coming when the Conservatives came into power. And in Canada do you hear about all these ban same sex marriages. NO because Canadians in all are accepting of mostly everything. With the conservatives you can see it happening all ready and thats the fact that canada will become the USA largest and newest state. I for one do not want this to happne. We are loosing our soldiers because BUSH WANTS CANADA TO DO HIS CRAP WORK.

It may not be in the bible but there is text of homosexual acts in the bible. I forget what story and all but there are. and also in history a man could not sleep with a woman unless they were married. so MEN shared beds, and often there was SEX... THis is proven in history so why does shit today have to be different why can we not go the step further and marry our same sex partner.

Why should I not be allowed to marry the man of my dreams? what harm will it do anyone?

What about all those marriages that are out there where the man and woman are married not to have kids but to be married. They are out there... where they never want kids yet get married... I thought in the bible marriages is for procreation.

Andrew

06-06-2006, 09:59 AM

It'll go somewhere in a way with the fact that it'll go nowhere; the possibility of it actually going through is bleak, so it'll more than likely be scrapped.

Dubya is just trying to appease to the extreme right wing, social conservatives in attempt to compensate for his crapshack approval ratings.

Noah

06-06-2006, 11:56 AM

Absolutely. There is no chance that a constitutional amendment will pass in either house of Congress. In reality it simply isn't an issue. Polls continually show that basically all Americans under the age of 40 just don't care about the issue. This country has, with few exceptions, progressed past an issue with discrimination against gays.

Bush calling for support for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage is nothing more than a political ploy. With mid-term elections approaching this latest stunt is merely a last-ditch effort to try and muster any support for right wing candidates.

All politics aside, and whether or not you support Bush, and are a democrat or republican, things are looking very bleak for the republican party. The war in Iraq is proving to be less and less popular almost by the day, there was the whole Hariet Miers nomination debacle, the Dubai Ports deal, Hurricane Katrina, immigration... the laundry list goes on... It's nothing more than pandering and a last-ditch effort to rally any support the republicans can get. And, of course, the only support that the Republicans have left is from the die-hard neo-conservatives and the religious-right.

As vehemently opposed as I am to a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, when Bush is out making speaches calling for action, and attempting to rally the troops around such a trivial issue, I can't help but laugh. The effort is comical. Of course, when you really think about it, we have people dying every day in a war, and the executive branch is more worried about whether or not gay people will be able to marry in the future. :rolleyes:

BellaBlack

06-06-2006, 01:26 PM

Heh. Noah is right. No wonder Bush's approval rates are at their lowest.

Kaylan

06-06-2006, 09:03 PM

i think this is ridiculous, okay so many peoples reasoning for being against gay marriage is that its not in the bible, and all the blah, so what about people who don't follow the bible, the budhists, athiests, Hindus ect. They have to follow laws that are based ona religion they don't follow. God didn't inted for gay marriage? Well not everyone believes in god so why should they have to follow christian beliefs?

Exactly what I was thinking. Is it right to make laws based on religious beliefs? I personally don't think it's right. I'm going to trivialize it because I can't do anything but snicker at this. What if the Buddhists all joined together and got a huge movement going about how eating meat is wrong. Will there be a law created saying eating meat is illegal? I don't know, I'm just puzzled by how society can be so intrigued by an issue that really should be a non-issue.

Noah

06-07-2006, 11:14 AM

Exactly what I was thinking. Is it right to make laws based on religious beliefs? I personally don't think it's right. I'm going to trivialize it because I can't do anything but snicker at this. What if the Buddhists all joined together and got a huge movement going about how eating meat is wrong. Will there be a law created saying eating meat is illegal? I don't know, I'm just puzzled by how society can be so intrigued by an issue that really should be a non-issue.

This may be a bit off topic, but have you heard any of the new Radiohead stuff? Pretty killer, if you ask me.

It really is that trivial. I can only equate it with pure lunacy. (honestly, apologies to those who may take offence) Nearly a half century since the civil rights movement, exactly why on earth we're even talking about this is beyond me.

Just like when we decided that letting brown dudes and white guys sit in the same section on the bus, or have little brown children going to school with our little white kids may actually not be that bad of a thing- Even in the face of violent opposition, America (somehow) got through it and, would you look at that, it wasn't the downfall of the United States.

So maybe, just maybe, letting gay people be married and happy and gay won't mean the end of morality, and the American way of life. But, hey, I've been wrong before.

Of course, all this isn't even considering the fact that an amendment banning gay marriage is fundamentally unconstitutional and just plain wrong. Now, if an amendment that is nothing more than pandering to a very small group of fanatic Christians is passed- it will be a dark, dark day in the history of America and I would seriously question the direction in which this country is going (as if I haven't already been questioning it).

Alas, we needn't worry, because such an amendment would never have a chance in hell of passing. ;)

See! -> Senate block gay marriage ban. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5056474.stm)

OTH man

06-07-2006, 11:33 AM

we have people dying every day in a war, and the executive branch is more worried about whether or not gay people will be able to marry in the future. :rolleyes:

umm nobody ever said he cared more about it, but he is the President so he has to deal with more than the war, he cant say "Don't tell me anything not having to do with the war." Or else he would be rightly critisized

also, i find it comical that when hes spending more money on the war its "Why isn't he dealing with other issues, and why do we need to spend more money on it." and when hes not its "Why isn't he dealing with the war?"

really, some people just cant be pleased...

EDIT:

its not all based on religious beliefs, yes that might be why some people dislike gay marrige but, most Americans arent for gay marrige so its based on the American Population and not soley on Religious Beliefs

also, I'm pretty sure (not 100%) that Bush isnt even Christian, so obviously he isnt basing it on the Bible

*Liz*

06-07-2006, 11:54 AM

he is a christian....

Kate

06-07-2006, 12:07 PM

How can you say that the majority of America is against gay marridge, its the gay capital of the world!!!

Have you ever been to San Francisco, its like hevan. Nobody cares if you are different as long as you are a good person. Haow can you judge a person on there orientation, its just like saying that because a person likes a certain type of music they should be banned from listening to it.

We are a world of war and poverty, a world where we dont care about the dying or the war torn countries frankly all President Bush has done is slaughter thioughsands of people in an attempt to win back glory for america and get cheaper oil.

The people who cause the problemi in this world are the people who try to opress or persicute people for whatever reason, Hitlerpesicuted those who were different and he is reguarded as one of the attrosities of humanity. Im not saying that bush is that bad but he is on his way down the path to dictatorship.

I personally find it incomprehensable that people can judge others because of their orientation. He may just be trying to play to christians but not all christians are against it. He will loose all of the gay vote which is than a few million and anyone who calls themselves truely christian wouldnot vote for someone who opresses people!!!!!!!

alexisfan

06-07-2006, 11:21 PM

I say if being with the same sex partner makes you happy them go for it,I don't see
anything wrong with gay couples getting married. I also don't see anything wrong with them adopting kids they can be just as good of parents as a heterosexual couple.
I agree this shouldn't be on top of Bush's priority list he needs to deal with immagration,the war in Iraq,poverty and much more.
I don't agree with anything Bush says to begin with he is just stupid.

I agree as long as you are a good law following citizen you should be able to live your life the way you want too as long as you are not hurting anyone else.

Soccergirl1023

06-08-2006, 04:17 AM

Wow, the little respect I had for Bush has just dropped drastically. I seriously can't believe he said that... inferior? wow... such a strong word, for me at least.

I just don’t understand what is so wrong for them to see two people fall in love. whether they are the same sex or not? Why should it even matter? Don’t give me bible crap, that’s all a bunch of BS! God didn’t even write that! If God didn’t want me, you, or whoever to fall in love with someone of our same sex he wouldn’t have made it happened. He wouldn’t allow it, he would get rid of that kind of lifestyle!! He is that powerful! Seriously! This issue upsets me so much its not even funny. There is people out there that who say that God hates gay people. That’s just so stupid! God loves everyone, he created all of us, and if he didn’t wanted any of us to be gay then he would have made it happen just like that! People need to realize it’s a free world, our lives are gifts from God and he wants us to be happy! Either with the opposite or same sex, I think he loves us all equally. I just don’t get why is that so hard to understand. Why there has to be so much hate for gays! you know? its insane!

OTH man

06-08-2006, 02:07 PM

Now, I wasn't going to mention the Bible but that above post brought it up: God gave all humans the right to choose, the right to chose if they follow him, and at least my understanding is that he gave us the right to chose weather we eat an apple or not, or even if we love men or women

and nobody here, at least said God hates gays, because, he doesnt yes, it does say not to be gay and that does mean God doesn't WANT you to be gay, but it does not mean he will hate you if you are gay

Isley

06-08-2006, 02:24 PM

seriously. You don't choose to be gay. If you're gay, that is part of the person you are, you don't choose to be gay anymore than you choose to be straight. And I think it is tragic to think about that they are seriously considering to pass(if they are) something only based on religion and opinion. I highly doubt that it will happen though, because the thought is so ludacris. There are like so many religions in the world, and basing somthing from one of them is just discriminating.

Ashlyn

06-08-2006, 05:25 PM

Kevin, what the bible says and what you believe God thinks just doesn't matter when it comes to making laws. End of story. It can matter in your opinion, it can matter to you, but we can't base laws off of it. Also, you should know that people have quoted the bibles to support slavery, and to fight interracial marriages. You can twist almost anything to support whatever you want it to.

amberdawn

06-08-2006, 05:25 PM

I just don’t understand what is so wrong for them to see two people fall in love. whether they are the same sex or not? Why should it even matter? Don’t give me bible crap, that’s all a bunch of BS! God didn’t even write that! If God didn’t want me, you, or whoever to fall in love with someone of our same sex he wouldn’t have made it happened. He wouldn’t allow it, he would get rid of that kind of lifestyle!! He is that powerful! Seriously! This issue upsets me so much its not even funny. There is people out there that who say that God hates gay people. That’s just so stupid! God loves everyone, he created all of us, and if he didn’t wanted any of us to be gay then he would have made it happen just like that! People need to realize it’s a free world, our lives are gifts from God and he wants us to be happy! Either with the opposite or same sex, I think he loves us all equally. I just don’t get why is that so hard to understand. Why there has to be so much hate for gays! you know? its insane!
Umm, wow, you dont understand anything about the Bible at all.

Now, although Im a Conservative and a Christian, I dont agree with this. I think people should be allowed to make their own choices and marry who they want. I have a few gay friends, so this issue is sensitive for me.

H2Opologirl

06-09-2006, 11:54 AM

The thing that bothers me the most is that some people think that gay people should be able to have a union and not a marriage because a marriage should only be between a man and a woman. I don't get why it matters so much. If you're comitted to the person it shouldn't matter if they are male or female. Besides, marriage is just a word and the meanings of words change...not too long ago gay only meant happy, not someone who is a homosexual.

Bush is stupid. Why should he care if gays want to get married? This doesn't hurt our country in any way.

OTH man

06-09-2006, 03:27 PM

Ashlyn

06-09-2006, 04:50 PM

Good to hear, but without the bible, what is your reasoning for not wanting gay people to be allowed marriages?

Oc_gurlie101

06-09-2006, 06:27 PM

nevvver mind

Kate

06-09-2006, 06:59 PM

never mind what??

Soccergirl1023

06-10-2006, 01:20 AM

Umm, wow, you dont understand anything about the Bible at all.

Now, although Im a Conservative and a Christian, I dont agree with this. I think people should be allowed to make their own choices and marry who they want. I have a few gay friends, so this issue is sensitive for me.

Yeah, I might not know the bibble at all but from what I have heard, it basically says that if you are gay, you are a siner. And that its not normal or something, i dont know..please enlighten me. lol (not trying to be mean at all)

OTH man

06-10-2006, 02:08 AM

Kate

06-10-2006, 03:46 AM

Ok where is he getting people to sign this pettition, the bible belt, Cos it was only the old testement that was against being gay, Jesus was fine with it.

Soccergirl1023

06-10-2006, 04:06 AM

Alright, I totally don’t want you kids to feel like I’m bashing it, if you feel like that sorry.
I was just saying that I’m really sick of all the bible talk, what about those who don’t believe in it? you know? What are they supposed to think about the whole situation? Since the bible has different views that they are. Sorry if you guys feel like I went out of hand, I probably did so my apologies, I just really don’t see what is soo wrong about two people of the same sex loving each other, I don’t see why the bible doesn’t like that.

Webeh

06-10-2006, 11:15 AM

ashlyn, I'm just saying that Bush is right to try to make the law because of the petitions going around people have signed who are anti- gay marrige, they may of signed it for various reasons, and one stong one might be the Bible, but really Bush is basing the law off of America who may, or may not be basing it off of the Bible.

If you're basing a bill off petitions being signed against same-sex marriage, you could also easily introduce a bill to legalize same-sex marriage off petitions as well. I have no doubt there are many petitions requesting that such a bill be introduced.

So, I don't think it's just petitions fueling this bill. It's more likely a combination of his own personal beliefs and the likelihood that most of his supporters are from the Bible belt areas. We also have to remember that Bush wants the Republicans to stay in power, even after his term.

I not defending Bush's decision to push the bill, but I do think these are his objectives in doing so. (There's no point in me arguing a position because this is the type of subject where emotions just get inflamed and no one ever budges from their initial opinion. ;) )

Edit: Weird. Some of the words in my post turned into advertisements...

Ashlyn

06-10-2006, 01:10 PM

Kevin, that really doesn't seem like Bush's motive. As Webeh pointed out, there has been just as much or more petitions and arguments for gay marriage as against. This is about Bush pleasing the Republicans and making a desperate attempt to help his approval ratings. He knew this would never ever pass, because people are finally starting to be less narrow minded and it clearly just seems wrong. It's acceptable if, in your religion, you believe that homosexuality is wrong, but it's not anybody's right to decide based on their beliefs what other people are allowed to do. There is certain things that are obviously morally wrong -- things that hurt people -- stealing, murdering, abuse... and these can be illegal, and should be illegal, but gay marriage doesn't hurt anybody, and it would certainly be beneficial to our society. What can possibly be wrong about allowing two people who love each other to be married?

Isley

06-10-2006, 01:26 PM

Amen to that post Ashlyn!:D I agree, it doesn't hurt anybody, there may people who doesn't like it, but that is as far as it goes.

tommygirl887

06-10-2006, 03:27 PM

OTH man

06-10-2006, 07:39 PM

well, some people may not even be Christian and not like it, just because that is their views

Yes, there may be petitions for them, but I doubt any of thoes outdo the ones against gay marrige

In a CBS News poll conducted immediately after President Bush endorsed a constitutional ban on gay marriage, 59% of Americans said they would favor an amendment to the Constitution that would "allow marriage only between a man and a woman," up slightly from 55% last December.

---SOURCE--- (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/24/national/main601828.shtml)

amberdawn

06-10-2006, 08:08 PM

I agree with Ashlyn. My religion is against homosexuality.. but those beliefs don't apply to those who don't follow it. We have separation of church and state and freedom of religion, by which you can't be forced by the government to follow a certain religion. By not allowing same-sex marriages, isn't that forcing people to follow what Christianity along with other religions say? Because aside from verses from the Bible etc, no one has anything to back up why same-sex marriages shouldn't be allowed.
Thats exactly my point of view. My religion is against it, but what kind of person would I be to tell someone that they cant marry the person they love and that its wrong? It just doesnt seem right.

Ok where is he getting people to sign this pettition, the bible belt, Cos it was only the old testement that was against being gay, Jesus was fine with it.

Erm, thats wrong. Jesus was never okay with it.

Ashlyn

06-10-2006, 08:16 PM

I agree, the bible is pretty clearly against it.

Kevin, your statistics can say one thing, but the majority isn't always right. If the majority of people were for slavery, or against interracial marriage, that wouldn't mean we should make the laws just to please them.

oc_craze

06-10-2006, 08:25 PM

2nd off) How else are we going to settle it, I mean besides a vote?
Umm, why is it anyone else's business? I hate that this has become a voting issue. Why? Why do random people have a right to vote on what other people do with their lives? Someone who is gay has the right to be gay, not only that, but they can't help it. Its not something that can be fixed.
Even if there was a ban on gay marriages, you really think that's going to stop them? I don't know if you've noticed, but they are all determined and ready to fight to be together, as they should be.

Ashlyn

06-10-2006, 08:34 PM

I don't get why anybody is really fighting against this. I mean, how does it effect them? :rolleyes:

oc_craze

06-10-2006, 08:41 PM

I don't get why anybody is really fighting against this. I mean, how does it effect them? :rolleyes:
Exactly. They just want control over people's lives. I hate that they feel like they have a right to say anything about it at all. It drives me nuts.

extreme_cowgirl

06-10-2006, 08:51 PM

Andrew

06-10-2006, 10:38 PM

well, some people may not even be Christian and not like it, just because that is their views

Oh okay; so instead of people basing it off religious restrictions, it's just plain ol' personal prejudice... Whew!

[/sarcasm :rolleyes2]

ETA: Or the combination of the two. Ya know; masking their own bias with religion.

~Roger¤Davies~

06-11-2006, 06:22 AM

Okay this potition thing... Is stupid... Its only getting one sides votes... why not get the other sides... she who cares about having the same sex marriages... either for the good or the bad ( banning ) and whoe doesnt care... and then the dont really care votes would be put towards the leaving as is now.

Webeh

06-12-2006, 01:44 AM

In a CBS News poll conducted immediately after President Bush endorsed a constitutional ban on gay marriage, 59% of Americans said they would favor an amendment to the Constitution that would "allow marriage only between a man and a woman," up slightly from 55% last December.

This hardly represents the entire population. For one thing, the poll was conducted by CBS news. This means CBS viewers (and only CBS viewers)voted. On top of that, they had to put in the effort to participate in this survey, which means they those particular people wanted to say something. This leaves out a large chunk of the population. The sample used for the poll was definitely not a randomnized one.

Also, despite what they may claim, networks always do push a partiular political position. So, only supporters of that stance would watch that network's news, otherwise they'd turn elsewhere for it.

I've learned to not trust polls conducted by radio stations, newspapers, networks, etc., because they're not accurate. During an election, you'll have hundreds of polls are done and they'll all say different things depending on who conducted them.

OTH man

06-12-2006, 01:56 AM

okay find me a poll saying most Americans support gay marriage

I'm not saying its 100% correct, but I think its roughly correct

Ashlyn

06-12-2006, 08:47 AM

But you're missing the point... if most Americans thought we should bring back slavery, we wouldnt' do it, because it would be wrong. If most Americans thought we shouldn't let a black man marry a white woman, we wouldn't do it, because it would be wrong. This isn't a "majority rules" kind of issue, it's a right vs. wrong sort of issue, and it is wrong to prevent people in love from marrying based on religion and/or bigotry.

Kate

06-12-2006, 11:02 AM

Webeh

06-12-2006, 01:04 PM

I never said that you would find the opposite results to be true. You wouldn't because the US is a heavily conservative supporting country. What I'm trying to say that if one were to argue a position, it would be harder to refute the results of a poll if the source was something with a reputation for more (100% just isn't possible) neutrality. Television networks are definitely subjective, which means they can't pull off a survey that is fully representative. Something like the American version of Statistics Canada would stand up better (even though it has major issues of its own).

You wanted me to find a poll representing the opposite results and I did find one:

53% of Americans would permit gays and lesbians to enter into legal arrangements that would give them many of the same rights as married couples.

Source (http://www.pamspaulding.com/weblog/2005/08/support-for-same-sex-marriage.html)

I'm not even going to pretend to claim that the results here are anymore accurate than CBS. It's very clear they aren't once you take a closer look at the data. But, I think you get what I mean. You can always get the results you want if you the polling technique is subjective enough.

Isley

06-12-2006, 03:22 PM

extreme_cowgirl

06-12-2006, 03:29 PM

umm nobody ever said he cared more about it, but he is the President so he has to deal with more than the war, he cant say "Don't tell me anything not having to do with the war." Or else he would be rightly critisized

also, i find it comical that when hes spending more money on the war its "Why isn't he dealing with other issues, and why do we need to spend more money on it." and when hes not its "Why isn't he dealing with the war?"

really, some people just cant be pleased...

EDIT:

its not all based on religious beliefs, yes that might be why some people dislike gay marrige but, most Americans arent for gay marrige so its based on the American Population and not soley on Religious Beliefs

also, I'm pretty sure (not 100%) that Bush isnt even Christian, so obviously he isnt basing it on the Bible

Yet again I agree with you on the issue of it's not just about religious beliefs. That most of the american population are not for gay marriage. anyways I think Bush is a christian, but that does not matter. He is just doing what he thinks the people want...

OTH man

06-12-2006, 03:49 PM

Ashlyn, I totally see what your saying but, although you are all saying you are born with being gay as people are born with their skin color, I disagree. I think it has to do with how things were done when they were growing up and how people at school or at events have molded them to become gay or straight. Therefore, at least saying what I just said is true, then this is not like inter-racial marriges.

Now I know you will say "well, I don't think that so how can you use that as a reason?" but when we were deciding on weather to make inter-racial marrige legal, most people actually either didnt mind or was for inter-racial marrige, this almost everyone cares about and I would say that even though the polls cant be trusted from television, its human nature to trust that more than a poll conducted by "365gay.com" and I'm almost 100% most people are against gay marrige

and here comes my final point of this post: Some people still are against inter-racial marrige but we will just use an example here lets say 1/5 of people are against inter-racial marrige that still means 4/5 of people are for it, so because most people think its right, we call it "right" now since most people are against gay marrige lets say 5/8 of people are against gay marrige, because most people are against it, should we call it "wrong"?

(oh and jsut a note, that thing about inter-racial marrige, I'm all for inter-racial marrige, so I just wanted to point that out after this post so people don't think I'm against that)

oclover24

06-12-2006, 05:43 PM

I'm almost 100% most people are against gay marrige

Um, wow...I honestly don't believe that.

Anyways, how can they poll less than 1,000 people, get their beliefs on gay marriage recorded, and claim that is how the whole country feels about that issue? Polls are useless unless you poll the whole country, and record everybody's exact vote.

Ashlyn

06-12-2006, 05:48 PM

You're wrong. For a long time, interracial marriage was illegal, and people were really against it. In fact, a lot of those people had religious reasons for being against it.

Also, scientific knowledge is pushing through to show that homosexuality could very well be genetic. Also, even if it is a chosen thing, it's still their choice to make, and their right to be married.

How does it really effect you if gay people can get married? Whatever happened to treating people like you want to be treated?

ETA: Aww, thanks Maddy.

tommygirl887

06-12-2006, 06:03 PM

I'm almost 100% most people are against gay marrige

You can't say that with 100% certainty. Maybe most of the people you know are against it, but you can't apply that to the whole country. Based on just the people on this site, I could say most people are for same sex marriages. We don't know how true that is unless we were to poll the entire country.

Whether or not you believe in it or not.. what does it matter? As Ashlyn has repeated numerous times.. it's not effecting you in any way. (And by you, I don't just mean you Kevin, I mean anyone against it..) If homosexuals are getting married, not doing anything to you.. let them do what they want. There's no reason why they shouldn't be able to be with the person they love.

zealousheart

06-12-2006, 06:19 PM

Actually,
In a 2003 Ford poll of 1,314 Americans of varied races, 3 in 10 reported they were against black-white marriage, but were more willing to accept white-Hispanic or white-Asian marriages. Marriage between Whites and Asians, and particularly light-skinned North East Asians, is considered the least controversial. Reasons for the differences in these attitudes relate to: skin color, economic prosperity, and history of ethnic strife. If that's 2003 probably a lot more of the population was against it back when the movement was going on to make it legal. But that didn't stop anyone. They realized that if two people love each other it doesn't matter the race, they'll be happy. The same goes for gender. If two people love eachother and want to be married, who are we to stop them?

Andrew

06-12-2006, 08:24 PM

Isn't Bush a "born again"-Christian? (which is like, Christianity to the hundreth power)

Anyway... this debate has suddenly turned into a "Nature vs. Nurture" debate, so I guess I'll elaborate on that:

I honestly don't think homosexuality is a choice, but rather a neurologic distinction.

Of course, there are those exceptions; extreme cases where "Person A" has had so much relationship-anguish with the opposite sex that they resort to finding love from the same sex.

But other than that, I don't think anyone would purposely place themselves into a group that is ridiculed and basically crucified by society.

Yet again I agree with you on the issue of it's not just about religious beliefs

Once again, if it isn't religious restrictions, then it's just personal prejudice, which isn't any better and doesn't make it any more justified.

OTH man

06-12-2006, 09:21 PM

nobody said it was better, its just saying its not only religious

Ashlyn

06-12-2006, 09:28 PM

You still haven't answered why it effects you if people who love each other get married.

Kay

06-12-2006, 09:31 PM

whats the big deal with the marriage? I mean really..is it going to hurt anyone? I think not!

In the end marriage can be seen as just a piece of a paper..Bush nor the freaking army of the world can stop 2 people from 1) being in love and 2) living together [maybe jail but really..] Before I babble my way away from my point. So what? Its such a stupid and little thing!((II mean that in a good way))

And if you do bring religion into it..than why isnt Bush stopping prostitution? although I'm not clear with the exact "rules" of Christianity I'm pretty sure IF it was saying gays are wrong or whatever the only one "doomed" at the end if the person so who gives anyone the right to stop someone from sending themselves to hell?

OTH man

06-12-2006, 09:32 PM

how it effects me? Well seeing them like flirting or kissing or whatever I wouldnt like, but more importantally, if gay marrige is legalized it will make this next generation (as in our kids) a lot more exposed to gays, which will result in either more hate, more gays, or a combonation of the two.. frankly in our futures if it is legalized I see it making our childrens lives a lot differant and it will expose them to it too much ultimataly resulting in more gays which will most likely tear families apart or make more hatred

Kay

06-12-2006, 09:36 PM

how will it make more hate?

& I have a couple of friends who don't like seeming girl-boy kissing..they're all straight..so shall we stop boy-girl kissing?

OTH man

06-12-2006, 09:38 PM

kara- you know its differant seeing boy/girl kissing and boy/boy or girl/girl

it will cause more hate because the people who are anti-gay might preech to their kids to be anti-gay, add the exposure of gays, and it angers them, and then we've got troubled youth

Kay

06-12-2006, 09:41 PM

No I dont. I see my friend kissing her boyfriend..aww. I see my friend kissing her girlfriend I go aww!

thats just silly. [no offence]. But dont you think of people saw something more they will be able to think oh not so wrong?

Ashlyn

06-12-2006, 09:45 PM

That's ridiculous. More exposure to black people makes people less racist, and more exposure to gay people with teach tolerence. Plus, you can't REALLY be thinking that you're against gay marriage for their own good. Plus, I don't know if you know this, but gay people can still kiss if they're not married.

OTH man

06-12-2006, 10:07 PM

i know they can, bcuz ive seen it and really it just makes me kinda grossed out...

not necisarrily some people will be more angered the more they see gays because its like "i dont like it"

::you see a gay couple making out::
"Gross, now I really dont like it"

if your against it, and see them making out you wont go

"Oh, isnt that awsome."

Quinton

06-12-2006, 10:11 PM

I'm curious, isn't it already banned?

Ashlyn

06-12-2006, 10:21 PM

Well, hopefully our world will progress to the day where it'll make just as much sense to be grossed out by gay people as it does to be pissed off at the presence of black people. Plus, if seeing straight people making out offended people, would that make it right to not let them get married? If seeing midgets make out grossed people out would it make it right to not let them get married? Come on, the law is far from based on what turns the stomach of the religious right.

OTH man

06-12-2006, 10:53 PM

no, that was just a side comment about them making out, my real points were the other stuff

Ashlyn

06-12-2006, 11:21 PM

What other stuff? The thing with gay marriage is, I don't think there is one valid point against it.

OTH man

06-12-2006, 11:28 PM

but more importantally, if gay marrige is legalized it will make this next generation (as in our kids) a lot more exposed to gays, which will result in either more hate, more gays, or a combonation of the two.. frankly in our futures if it is legalized I see it making our childrens lives a lot differant and it will expose them to it too much ultimataly resulting in more gays which will most likely tear families apart or make more hatred

That stuf.....

Ashlyn

06-12-2006, 11:31 PM

Counterpoint...

That's ridiculous. More exposure to black people makes people less racist, and more exposure to gay people with teach tolerence. Plus, you can't REALLY be thinking that you're against gay marriage for their own good. Plus, I don't know if you know this, but gay people can still kiss if they're not married.

To have an effective debate, you make a point, i respond, and then you respond to mine, etc..

OTH man

06-12-2006, 11:34 PM

Ashlyn

06-12-2006, 11:40 PM

You just said it wasn't even a point, just how you feel.

Nevermind. I haven't seen you make a good point yet, which distresses me. I get that it grosses you out. But, I don't think that even you know why you don't think they should be able to get married. They LOVE eachother! They want to get married. How can that be wrong. And if you do think it's wrong, according to your bible, fine, but how in the HELL can it be illegal?

OTH man

06-12-2006, 11:46 PM

well, i havent made any points except for our future, the future of the youth, families being torn apart, and hate

tommygirl887

06-12-2006, 11:59 PM

I'm curious, isn't it already banned?

I'm not 100% sure, so if someone wants to correct me then by all means, go ahead.

My understanding is that it's currently a state issue... so it varies from state to state. I know where I live (in Michigan) its banned, along with a ton of other states. By making it an amendment, it applies to every single state, so no matter where you go its a uniform policy.

What I'm unsure of is if there is a state where it is legalized.

OTH man

06-13-2006, 12:01 AM

I'm pretty sure your right Saadia

I'm pretty sure in Mass. its legal not sure where else thoug

tommygirl887

06-13-2006, 12:12 AM

well, i havent made any points except for our future, the future of the youth, families being torn apart, and hate

Exposing people to gay marriage won't ruin our future, the future of the youth etc...

In fact, I think it's better for our future.

Take racism. We've obviously come a long way. If you look at our generation, we're more accepting towards people of different colors and background etc. Not to say that racism no longer exists, of course it does, but compared to previous generations, overall I think ours is more accepting. Maybe this is a lame comparision, but if anyone watched that show "Black and White" on FX that was playing a few months ago, the kids on the show embraced the opposite culture more so than the parents. It's not really anyone's fault, it's just that since they finally started accepting African Americans before we were born, as we grew up black and white wasn't as big of an issue as it was when our parents were growing up.

If you apply that to homosexuality, then I think it's the same way. If we begin to accept it now, in the future it won't be an issue. Our kids will have grown up with it being accepted, so there wouldn't be a need for hatred. There won't be as much of a prejudice because maybe by then, being gay won't be looked down upon.

Ashlyn

06-13-2006, 12:20 AM

well, i havent made any points except for our future, the future of the youth, families being torn apart, and hate

Our Future
Our nation would only be greatened by people who love eachother being allowed to be married and celebrate that love. Plus, come on, it doesn't personally effect anybody but the people that get to have a marriage and be in love. When our world is working so that marriage means very little to people, it's great that these people are FIGHTING for their right to be married.

The Future of the Youth
You have no point here. Doesn't effect them. Unless of course they're gay youth, who will no longer feel discriminated against and have the possibility of marriage to somebody they love ahead of them.

Families being torn apart.
By marriage? Don't make me laugh. Oh wait, please do. I get a chuckle out of this.

Hate
Hate would be STRENGTHENED by further discrimination. I keep using it as an example, but hate for interrracial couples has gone way down since it was legalized. I mean, come on, you have no point here. You truly are trying to SHIELD gay people from discrimination by refusing to allow them a marriage? Come on!

And... for the last time... a question you keep avoiding.

HOW DOES IT EFFECT YOU?

Just curious. Because you seem to be really against it for not being able to think of a reason how it would effect your life.

OTH man

06-13-2006, 01:12 AM

families being torn apart is funny? HOW IS THAT FUNNY?

I actually know a family where the son came out and they threw him out, I know his sister well and shes really broken up about it and stuff.. its ANYTHING but funny!

how does it affect me? It affects the whole nation, and like i said before people will be more accepted, my kids friends might be gay because of the exposure, or hey, maybe my kids will be gay, and as mean as it sounds, i do not want my children to be gay, so it does affect me

also, if thats not good enough for you I'll answer more if you answer this

If gay marrige is illegal, how does it affect YOU?

(granted, your not gay)

Webeh

06-13-2006, 02:45 AM

So, mere exposure to homosexuality will make someone gay like a seriously contagious disease? According to your own socialization theory, it sounds like you're suggesting that no matter how dominant the presence of heterosexuality is, homosexuality will always win out (no matter how small the exposure is) in determining ones sexual orientation. Choice does not come into play at all here.

Ooh! Let me throw another question into the mix. I've been noticing a lot of "Me! Me! Me!" here. So, how about a little of this:

If same-sex marriage is illegal/legal, how does it affect them? (Them being homosexual members of the community.)

Kate

06-13-2006, 03:34 AM

Lives can be made perfect by one day, one perfect day that is a human right for straight poeple. not just one day but a life of possible security, love and feeling like you belong with someone. This is poeples lives you guys are talking about here, how would you like it if i told you that you couln't marry the person you love. If it is banned thenAmerica as a countrey is failing its people and its self, it has always been known as a place of freedom. But opressing people and forcing them to live a half life goes against the foundations of America. And saying that you would be dissapointed if your kids were gay is the reason so many people are scared, so many people live false lives and take their own lives because they are afraid of the kind of hatred people like you spread!!!

HappyHamster

06-13-2006, 07:05 AM

families being torn apart is funny? HOW IS THAT FUNNY?

I actually know a family where the son came out and they threw him out, I know his sister well and shes really broken up about it and stuff.. its ANYTHING but funny!

I'm pretty sure Eyeshine meant that the idea of gays marrying actually breaks up existing families is "funny" a.k.a. ridiculous. (but correct me if I'm wrong Eyeshine, don't want to misinterpret you :D) In fact the example you give is not an example of a gay marriage breaking up a family but an example of ignorance and bigotry on the part of the parents breaking up a family. And you may say that it was the son's choice to be gay (even though I do not believe this is the case) but it was also their choice to treat him like a leper.

I really liked this bit on about.com:
State bans on gay sex were ineffective at banning gay sex, and state bans on gay marriage are equally ineffective at preventing lesbian and gay couples from having weddings, exchanging rings, and spending the rest of their lives together. State bans on gay marriage can't prevent a lesbian or gay couple's family or friends from describing them as married. It can't prevent proposals, tuxedos and gowns, honeymoons, anniversaries. Just as African-American couples of the slavery and Reconstruction era happily "jumped the broom" and got married in states that did not recognize their unions as valid, lesbian and gay couples are getting married every day. The government can't prevent that.

All it can prevent is hospital visitation, inheritance, and the thousands of other small legal perks that ordinarily come with marriage. It can, in short, take petty measures to punish committed lesbian and gay couples for their monogamy, for their willingness to commit to each other for life--but it can't do anything to prevent these unions from taking place. (http://civilliberty.about.com/od/gendersexuality/a/marriageamend_4.htm)

Oh and coming from the first country in the world to have legalized gay marriage I can tell you that we didn't all suddenly turn gay over night. So don't worry it's not contagious.

Second oh; people making out in general grosses me out. I mean for feck's sake can't they get a room??

Ashlyn

06-13-2006, 01:05 PM

families being torn apart is funny? HOW IS THAT FUNNY?

I actually know a family where the son came out and they threw him out, I know his sister well and shes really broken up about it and stuff.. its ANYTHING but funny!

I meant that families will also be brought together by marriage. I feel so sorry for that poor kid. Bigotry broke apart that family, at least as you're telling it. Regardless, that story has nothing to do with gay marriage.

how does it affect me? It affects the whole nation, and like i said before people will be more accepted, my kids friends might be gay because of the exposure, or hey, maybe my kids will be gay, and as mean as it sounds, i do not want my children to be gay, so it does affect me

People being more accepted is a good thing! People feeling allright with who they are is a good thing. Even if it is a choice, not a natural thing. and that's a big IF, they should be accepted for how they CHOOSE to be. It's none of you're bussiness if you're kids friends are gay. If you're not ready to accept your kids however they are, you shouldn't ever become a father. Good parents have unconditional love for their children.

also, if thats not good enough for you I'll answer more if you answer this

If gay marrige is illegal, how does it affect YOU?

(granted, your not gay)

That's as stupid as acting why white people cared about ending slavery. :rolleyes:

Happy Hampster - Yes, that's what I meant. Well, mostly. I mean that marriage would also create families, not tear them apart.

Webeh

06-13-2006, 01:17 PM

Oh and coming from the first country in the world to have legalized gay marriage I can tell you that we didn't all suddenly turn gay over night. So don't worry it's not contagious.

I'm also living in a country where same-sex marriage is legalized. No contagions here either. ;)

Second oh; people making out in general grosses me out. I mean for feck's sake can't they get a room??

Ditto here too. It's especially gag-worthy if they start to grope and grind and... You get my drift.

You know what's the worst? When it's being done in the bathroom. Hello, I have to use the toilet. I don't want to hear moaning while doing so.

Quinton

06-13-2006, 02:38 PM

Second oh; people making out in general grosses me out. I mean for feck's sake can't they get a room??That's a great point and it happens all the time. Whenever two people are making out, regardless of gender, it causes people to stare with disapproval.

In my country gay marriage is still banned but civil unions have been legalized and no negative effects has resulted from it. Gay couples (and defacto straight couples) are afforded the same rights as married couples.

Ol'blueyes

06-13-2006, 09:49 PM

I'm a republican, catholic, and a bush supporter and even I think its wrong to create an amendment to ban gay-marriage. It goes against our first amendment in the consitution and like those who have stated it before, it shouldn't be the main focus in our country right now.

oclover24

06-13-2006, 11:35 PM

But other than that, I don't think anyone would purposely place themselves into a group that is ridiculed and basically crucified by society.

That is what I always think when people are like "people shouldn't be gay." Why would you want to be singled out and teased?

how it effects me? Well seeing them like flirting or kissing or whatever I wouldnt like, but more importantally, if gay marrige is legalized it will make this next generation (as in our kids) a lot more exposed to gays, which will result in either more hate, more gays, or a combonation of the two.. frankly in our futures if it is legalized I see it making our childrens lives a lot differant and it will expose them to it too much ultimataly resulting in more gays which will most likely tear families apart or make more hatred

Um, I have so many problems with what you said...geez.

That's ridiculous. More exposure to black people makes people less racist, and more exposure to gay people with teach tolerence

I say this all the time, but Ashlyn, you rock!!!

I actually know a family where the son came out and they threw him out, I know his sister well and shes really broken up about it and stuff.. its ANYTHING but funny!

Well, that was the mother and father's choice to throw him out. I agree that's not funny but the parents pretty much caused the problem themselves (as least it sounds like it. The son wanted to be honest and the parents threw him out for it?)

And like HappyHamster said, I'm pretty much against most forms of PDA. I really don't want to see people trying to get in a minute of kissing before the warning bell rings, whether you are boy/girl, boy/boy, or girl/girl.

Andrew

06-14-2006, 12:21 AM

:lol:

What a philanthropist gesture... prevent gay associated "hate-crimes" by preventing them from getting married.

While we're at it, why don't we also get rid of banks in order to prevent bank robberies :up:

:rolleyes2

Kevin: it's great that you finally stated your real opinion instead of hiding behind the sanctuary that is "religion," but the only thing gross --or rather disgusting-- is your bigotry and intolerance.

So much for "love thy neighbor as thyself," huh? So much for Christianity being a "religion of love"; perhaps an asterik next to its definition is in order (I mean, we might as well, right? Since we're all apparently in the role of playing Noah Webster...)

On another note: I also agree with the public display of affection. I don't mind if they're pecks or "short kisses," but when tongues are involved and you can actually hear the saliva... :nohope: ... regardless if its m/f, m/m, or f/f: a shudder is in order.

oclover24

06-14-2006, 12:28 AM

^Little pecks and hand holding are alright with me, but when you're standing in the middle of the cafeteria with your other at seven-thirty in the morning, I don't want to see it.

When I was a seventh grader, my health teacher said, "I think you choose to be gay, and I tell that to all of the gay people I know." Well, not those exact words, but you get my drift. I was so mad about that, I ranted about him in my journal for two pages. Ass. Who does that??? I just thought that was really rude and unprofessional to tell a group of twelve-year-olds that.

Webeh

06-14-2006, 12:32 AM

^ It's a lot worse if you can't see them, but you can hear both the moaning and clothes being removed. *shivers...

What a philanthropist gesture... prevent gay associated "hate-crimes" by preventing them from getting married.

The problem is that homosexuals would still be there to be hated, even if they can't be married. Hence, the hate would still exist simply because homosexuals exist and are different.

Darad10, I cannot figure out your signature. But, I know that I love it. I want a T-shirt depicting the birds from the ink blot.

Edit: I just had a weird mental image of someone sitting down making a pro/con list of choosing to become a homosexual. That just seems so absurd.

oclover24

06-14-2006, 12:38 AM

^ :lol: "Pros to being gay" "cons to being gay."

I wonder what would be on that list...

*Ashlee*

06-14-2006, 12:39 AM

It is unfathomable that people would think it is actually okay to not allow homosexuals the same rights that heterosexuals have. It just helps to encourage the negative stigma that come to SOME peoples minds when it comes to discussing/meeting homosexuals. It is just really frustrating that after everything that has happened in the world that fighting against the homosexual union is such a big thing.

I feel sorry for homosexuals. It is sad that they have to live in such judgemental places sometimes. In places where they can not be open about who they are because of what the consequences may be. It must be hard and painful to have to hide who they are and perhaps act differently then they feel they want to act. They have to be who others want them to be instead of being themselves. When the President of a country adds to this, it only makes things worse. I am not upset that Bush himself is against it but fighting for many to be against it and further prevent the union of a marriage is sad. I think that is leading the Americans down, not up. I am not saying I dont respect opinions of people not supporting it but let them live their lives. Would you want someone taking away the things that make you happy and complete? I think not!

oclover24

06-14-2006, 12:42 AM

^Ashlee, I LOVE you!!! :D

OCvirgin

06-14-2006, 12:43 AM

^^Ditto...

It just racism with another twist... At the end of the day its freedom of choice. Every individual has a right to be who they want and be proud of it. This is just how Black Americans suffered intially... does this mean it will take another 50 years b4 gay relationships and marriages seem the norm?

For God's sake, we can go to the Moon but we cant let people live how they want... :wtf:

*Ashlee*

06-14-2006, 12:50 AM

Thanks Christine hehe

Exactly Rhea, so many things happen but this thing that seems so simple has turned into a war in itself! Honestly, how does it effect anyone here? and honestly, being grossed out i would think isnt the most appropriate answer lol i mean i get grossed out when dogs crap but im not going to attempt to make them stop doing that! it would be harmful to them.

I know that just because banning marriage for homosexuals doesnt mean they cant be together but it certainly doesnt help matters! Its frustrating. There are people who marriage is important to! I know i couldnt imagine not at least having the option to take those vows.

One of my best friends is gay and honestly, he is one of the best people i know. He is smart, sweet and so committed! When he is in a relationship he gives it his all. He makes everyone around him happy. I hate when I see him down about stuff like this happening. It is going to be happening here again in Canada come the fall and I know that is upsetting to him. Im also happy he has managed to come out to everyone in his life. He is so much happier being free and being himself. Lets not take that right away from any single person!

OCvirgin

06-14-2006, 12:53 AM

^^Again Ditto Ash!

Just let people live... Go and find Osama, sort out Saddam, do something productive. Let Gays, lesbians and all live in peace. Its all just about two people loving each other... what the hell is the problem? Make Love not war!!!

P.S. I love the dog analogy :lol:

oclover24

06-14-2006, 12:55 AM

Just let people live... Go and find Osama, sort out Saddam, do something productive. Let Gays, lesbians and all live in peace. Its all just about two people loving each other... what the hell is the problem? Make Love not war!!!

That should be our mantra/inspiring quote to promote not banning gay marriage! :D

*Ashlee*

06-14-2006, 12:55 AM

It is just so funny because I know Bush wouldnt sign the Kyoto Accord to help the environment, which is going downhill so fast this earth is in MAJOR trouble but he is willing to attempt to forbid gay marriages which dont hurt anyone! It just baffles me lol

The dog anaology was good lol I figured its something most could relate to lol

OCvirgin

06-14-2006, 12:58 AM

Of cos... Why doesnt Bush get his priorities right? I mean surely it's gonna hurt his campaign to get on the wrong side of such a big group of people.

I mean the abortion topic, its understandable... there's a good arguement for both sides. But Gay marriages... people just want to express their love and commitment to their partners, what could possibly be wrong about that?

*Ashlee*

06-14-2006, 01:02 AM

meh he will be out of office soon enough lol Prioritzing would definitly be good right about now. People are dying all over the world. Katrina victims are STILL suffering terribly! Africa in many parts is just..death :( Im afraid to have kids...who knows what kind of world i will be bringing them into.

OCvirgin

06-14-2006, 01:04 AM

Who knows whats happening to the world Ash... People getting killed, raped, kidnapped... like you said what kind of world would we be bringing our kids into? Its frightening...

oclover24

06-14-2006, 01:05 AM

You two are so lucky you live in other countries/areas of the word where they are more tolerant.

There's this kid at my school who's totally pro-Bush that is gay. He defends Bush's actions all the time. I don't get how you could be gay and support Bush. I see being gay and being a Republican, but not supporting Bush. :shrugs:

ETA - Like you guys, I'm kind of afraid to have kids because I'm scared of the world they would be raised in.

*Ashlee*

06-14-2006, 01:07 AM

IT might not be tolerant here in Canada much longer. Are Prime Minister wants to hold a vote in the House of Commons in the fall whether or not to allow gay marriage...

oclover24

06-14-2006, 01:08 AM

...and I'm guessing it looks like most people will vote against it.

*Ashlee*

06-14-2006, 01:09 AM

its hard to say, i actually think many people in the house of commons didnt want to bring the issue up again and had considered it dealt with so it could do either way!

OCvirgin

06-14-2006, 01:10 AM

That's wierd... I wander how many of the american population are gay... Surely there must be alot... Why cant the world just be more tolerant to those who are different... Imagine if we were all like Mr Bush... *shudders* :lol:

oclover24

06-14-2006, 01:12 AM

^A world of George W. Bush-look and feel a likes would suck.

Isn't the statistic 10-11% of the population is gay? That's a pretty big number!

OCvirgin

06-14-2006, 01:15 AM

Yeh it is... Bush is just digging his grave depper and deeper... What if he was gay, would his decision still be the same?

oclover24

06-14-2006, 01:17 AM

Probably not!

And don't even get me started on Dick Cheney. His daughter is a lesbian. Meanwhile, Dick ( :lol: ) is out there working to ban gay marriage. What a weird dynamic.

OCvirgin

06-14-2006, 01:17 AM

Isn't it Ironic...?! God i feel like singing now...

oclover24

06-14-2006, 01:19 AM

hehe, me too!

Well I should go to bed now...it's been great talking to you about gay marriage and funny waxing stories, Rhea and Ashlee!! Goodnight!

*Ashlee*

06-14-2006, 01:19 AM

this was posted on a myspace bulletin:

Ronald Reagan - divorced the mother of two of his children to marry Nancy Reagan, who bore him a daughter only 7 months after the marriage.

Bob Dole - divorced the mother of his child, who had nursed him through the long recovery from his war wounds.

Newt Gingrich - divorced his wife who was dying of cancer.

Dick Armey - House Majority Leader - divorced

Sen. Phil Gramm of Texas - divorced

Gov. John Engler of Michigan - divorced

Gov. Pete Wilson of California - divorced

George Will - divorced

Sen. Lauch Faircloth - divorced

Rush Limbaugh - Rush and his current wife Marta have six marriages and four divorces between them.

Rep. Bob Barr of Georgia - Barr, not yet 50 years old, has been married three times. Barr had the audacity to author and push the "Defense of Marriage Act." The current joke making the rounds on Capitol Hill is "Bob Barr...WHICH marriage are you defending?!?

Sen. Alfonse D'Amato of New York - divorced

Sen. John Warner of Virginia - divorced (once married to Liz Taylor.)

Gov. George Allen of Virginia - divorced

Henry Kissinger - divorced

Rep. Helen Chenoweth of Idaho - divorced

Sen. John McCain of Arizonia - divorced

Rep. John Kasich of Ohio - divorced

Rep. Susan Molinari of New York - Republican National Convention Keynote Speaker - divorced

So ... homosexuals are going to destroy the institution of marriage? Wait a minute, it seems the Christian Heterosexual Republicans are doing a fine job without anyone's help!

If you agree, like we do, that hypocricy and bigotry must end, repost this.

OCvirgin

06-14-2006, 01:20 AM

:shocked: OMG! Now those stats are impressive!

amberdawn

06-14-2006, 01:26 AM

So much for "love thy neighbor as thyself," huh? So much for Christianity being a "religion of love"; perhaps an asterik next to its definition is in order (I mean, we might as well, right? Since we're all apparently in the role of playing Noah Webster...)

Andrew, that kind of statement offends me, as I am a Christian. I for one, am all for gay marriage. I believe people have the right to choose who they want to marry. I sure hope you dont believe all Christians share Kevin's views, because I dont, and a lot of the Christians I know, dont.

Andrew

06-14-2006, 01:30 AM

Yeah. Nothing but mere hyperbolism; I know plenty of Christians (and religious people in general) who support gay marriage.

BTW... long time no see :tongue:

OTH man

06-14-2006, 01:32 AM

Andrew- what the hell would impulse you to say that?

anyways, God still loves everyone, and God will forgive them, it never says they are going to hell or anything it simply says that you shouldnt be gay, I mean it also says not to kill and I don't see anyone saying God shouldn't of said that, basically because, you can't allow everything, and please don't twist around my words saying that I think being gay is as bad as murder, because I don't- at all.

amberdawn

06-14-2006, 01:34 AM

LOL, long time no see. ;)

Im glad you know Christians who support it. Christianity is a "religion of love" imo, and that's why I accept it. I didn't mean to come off as overreacting, but I'm devensive of my religion. It's just who I am.

oclover24

06-14-2006, 01:38 AM

Just curious - what passages in the Bible forbids homosexuality, or discuss it?

I was just reading that in ancient Greece and Japan, "was believed that a man who loved the man that stood beside him would fight harder and with greater morale." I think that's pretty cool.

Read this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_marriage. It says:

Conservative and some moderate Christians further state that same-sex marriage goes against biblical teaching, for example, Genesis 19:5 [6](behavior which allegedly contributed to the destruction of ancient cities Sodom and Gomorrah). This story was the source of the word sodomy. Other passages are Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13 (which prescribed punishment for male-male homosexual contact), and in the New Testament of the Bible, First Corinthians 6:8-10 and Romans 1:24-27. However, other moderate and liberal Christians have the view that these passages are taken out of full textual, historical and cultural contexts and aren't applicable to homosexual relationships as we know them today.

HappyHamster

06-14-2006, 01:51 AM

I think it's pretty irrelevant whether the bible says you shouldn't be gay. Laws shouldn't be made based on the bible. You can live according to it and I can choose not to, but we both have to live according to the laws of the land. Basing the law on the bible is making someone who doesn't believe in it live according to it anyway. And yes, the bible says "thou shall not kill" but that to me has always been a case of stating the obvious.

glance18

06-14-2006, 02:40 AM

People who are against gay marriage just confuse the hell out of me. If they love eachother and want to get married then who are others to decide. If you're gay then guess what you're gay and if you're straight then you're straight, it's simple as that. You don't choose which you are, you just are. However you do choose wether or not you follow your heart and embrace your true sexuality. It's sad that to see so many gay people who have supressed who they are just so they wouldn't be discriminated against for being who they are.

My mom babysat for a lesbian couple(who go to the church she goes to) from the time they had the little girl up until she started pre-school and she still does from time to time. I often times would fill in for her if she had something to do and they are probably the most committed couple I have ever met, they've been together for 13 years now, have had a commitment ceremony(since that's all they can really have, which is sad), wear their wedding rings proudly and are very much in love. Now whos place is it to tell them they don't have the right to get married? Answer, no one does other then them.

Kate

06-14-2006, 03:22 AM

rocco99

06-14-2006, 03:32 AM

Ashlyn

06-14-2006, 12:30 PM

Ha! That list really cracked me up. All of their marriages were sacred, but love between two people who happen to have the same reproductive organs would destroy the intitution. What hypocrites. :rolleyes:

Kevin, let me ask you, how would you feel if straight marriage was illegal? Don't BS and tell me that would never happen or anything either. Just straight up, how would that make you feel, if you knew that you'll never be able to get married.

OTH man

06-14-2006, 12:42 PM

kate- they wont be forgiven by law, but by God it will be (wait when you say "that could get you arrested where I live" does that mean like I could be arrested for saying it or if people do what i'm saying they will goto jail)

ashlyn- okay, so i'll admit that would seriously suck, and i'd hate it and i'd be mad at the government (and i know you pretty much said not to say this) because the government has nothing to back up their law and so it wouldnt ever work

Kate

06-14-2006, 12:53 PM

If people express homophobic veiws they could be arrested

OTH man

06-14-2006, 12:55 PM

well then luckily i dont live where you live, huh?

Kate

06-14-2006, 12:57 PM

I am going to go to collage in america so they better not ban it!!!!!!

OTH man

06-14-2006, 12:59 PM

America cant ban it, freedom of speech wouldn't allow them to ban it

Kate

06-14-2006, 01:00 PM

I mean gay marriage

OTH man

06-14-2006, 01:01 PM

what state are you guna live in?

Kate

06-14-2006, 01:04 PM

California possibly, i might live in New York but I think San Francisco

Ashlyn

06-14-2006, 05:21 PM

ashlyn- okay, so i'll admit that would seriously suck, and i'd hate it and i'd be mad at the government (and i know you pretty much said not to say this) because the government has nothing to back up their law and so it wouldnt ever work

... and aren't you supposed to treat people like you'd want to be treated? I mean, come on Kevin, it's the Christian principle! The government really has nothing to back up this law either, and unforunately it's in place in many states.. If you'd hate it if it was you, how can you fight FOR this sort of discrimination for other people? Right? :)

I must say that while I find homophobia to be disgusting and ridiculous, I could never support a ban on expressing any sort of views.

OTH man

06-14-2006, 05:36 PM

i know what your saying but i have to support this ban on gay marrige because i dont believe being gay is right so marrying as being gay i really cant support (obviously)

*Ashlee*

06-14-2006, 05:44 PM

..that just makes me speechless...wow! i mean, to respect your opinion i must do but to see someone spell out i dont think being gay is right....*sigh*

Kate

06-14-2006, 05:46 PM

i agree its against the law here to say that how can you say its wrong... ... all love is right, good no different!

extreme_cowgirl

06-14-2006, 05:51 PM

i know what your saying but i have to support this ban on gay marrige because i dont believe being gay is right so marrying as being gay i really cant support (obviously)

I would have to agree with you on this. I know I always agree with you OTH man but You always say it the way I think too. Sometimes it's almost like you take the words out of my mouth too.

zealousheart

06-14-2006, 05:57 PM

California possibly, i might live in New York but I think San Francisco

It could never be banned in CA constitutionally. It was totally legal in San Fran at one point. CA is a very open, liberal kind of state. No worries. Currently though only Massachusetts recognizes same-sex marriage, Vermont and Connecticut offer civil unions, California, New Jersey, Maine and the District of Columbia grant benefits through domestic partnerships, and Hawaii has reciprocal beneficiary laws. (Thanks to Wikipedia for that, and go Jersey, :lol:) Also legal challenges to legalize it are pending in California, Connecticut, Iowa, Maryland, Nebraska, New Jersey, New York, Oklahoma, and Washington. Totally prohibited by the constitution in Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Kansas, Lousiana, Michicgan, Missisipi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Texas and Utah. But in some of those states civil unions aren't banned. Legal challenges to ban it are pending in 5 states, Delaware, Massachusetts, New Jersey, North Carolina and Pennsylvania. (Jersey is just so confused, :lol:)

Chart here: http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=20695

Ashlyn

06-14-2006, 08:10 PM

i know what your saying but i have to support this ban on gay marrige because i dont believe being gay is right so marrying as being gay i really cant support (obviously)

I respect you're right to believe what you want about homosexuality, but do you really think it's right for one group of people's beliefs to decide the rights of other people? If the majority of people believed that straight marriage was wrong, and the government decided to make laws to please those people, that would be WRONG, right? America is about freedom of and from religion, and the right to do what you want. So, you can still think homosexuality is wrong while understanding that banning gay marriage is completely un-American, and you claim to love America. Many Christians are morally against homsexuality but intelligent enough to accept that their beliefs aren't enough to dictate other people's lives.

BellaBlack

06-14-2006, 08:46 PM

Yep California is a liberal state so you should be fine :)

Webeh

06-14-2006, 10:21 PM

Many Christians are morally against homsexuality but intelligent enough to accept that their beliefs aren't enough to dictate other people's lives.

I think it also should be noted that there are a lot of Christians (and people from other religions as well) who are very accepting of homosexuality. They believe that their god loves everyone for who they are, otherwise why would he/she have homosexuality? Their god is not a cruel one.

Also, there are some Catholic churches that do openly support same-sex marriage as well. They get a lot of grief from the Vatican, but the people at the church do not believe in a ban.

So, I wouldn't fully equate the Catholic religion (or Christianity) with the dislike of same-sex marriage. It's like with any other religion. You'll find varying degrees of how literal the Bible is taken. I once had a religion teacher that considered the story of Noah as a fable or metaphor and not a true event. (I liked her. She was more open to other opinions and would not grade according to the student's beliefs. She was a fair teacher. In fact, I was pretty lucky with my religion teachers. All the ones I got were pretty open.)

While on the subject of Catholic school (I went to one), I was just reminded of this human rights case that happened a few years back. This boy wanted to take his boyfriend to prom. (He made the mistake of giving school staff a heads up first and not just bringing him.) The school said no and the student appealed all the way up to Ontario government, winning in the end. Because Catholic schools are publicly funded (putting them under government jurisdiction), the school did not have the right to make up a rule that violated Ontario Human Rights or the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Also... The fact that the Catholic school board had no such rule prior to their attempt to ban same-sex prom dates helped too.

^ This was all over the news at the time. Also, I remembered how it split the school into sides. Those who just didn't care or couldn't figure out why he doesn't just bring the boyfriend anyways. Those who didn't want to see any same-sex couples. And, those who supported the couple and wanted them to go together.

Anyways... I realized a went off on a bit of tangent. So, carry on. :)

mimsicool

06-15-2006, 06:17 AM

I am a strong Christian, at a Christian school in which I have been confronted by a number of borderline homophobic attitudes or prejudiced people- people who have been brought up with or spoonfed the fact that "Homosexuality is wrong and/or a sin". (Just as a heads up, this is not a personal stab at anyone)

It is my belief that it is niether our place nor our job to judge people on their sexual preference (or, in fact on anything else, but that's another story) and by doing so, we are also sinning. God doesn't need us to judge people for him, that's his job and I think it's safe to say he does it a lot better than us anyway.

This has actually become somewhat of a tangent from the original topic, though. I refrained from posting on the case of Homosexual Marriage because I felt that I had not formulated enough of an opinion to do so. I still honestly don't know how I feel about it. It doesn't effect me, indirectly or otherwise at the moment and as such I can't tell how I'd feel in the situation or if someone close to me was and can not make a judgement on how I would feel in such a situation.

Marriage, in itself was once upon a time a statement of faith. This may sound absurd, but it was. The union of people before God was acknowledging their belief in him and his rules/commandments. IF one believes that homosexuality is a sin, then I understand why they feel strongly against gay marriage (besides the obvious reason) in that it almost becomes "mocking" of their Christian values.

Um...yeah, after all that rambling I still don't know where I'm going with this so I will leave it there. By the way, nice to see some action in these parts.

HappyHamster

06-15-2006, 06:50 AM

Marriage, in itself was once upon a time a statement of faith. This may sound absurd, but it was. The union of people before God was acknowledging their belief in him and his rules/commandments. IF one believes that homosexuality is a sin, then I understand why they feel strongly against gay marriage (besides the obvious reason) in that it almost becomes "mocking" of their Christian values.

I understand what you are trying to say here, but marriage is a legal union nowadays which for a lot of people has nothing to do with religion. Forgetting the whole "promising to love and honor eachother" thing for a bit, on a mundane level marriage also means a stronger legal position for either partner when something happens to the other, it means your taxes are different and a whole range of other legal upsides that it would be wrong to deny those rights to certain couples. And as much as some might want to believe a civil union already fixed this (although helping with many of those things) it still doesn't give you the same rights as a marriage does.

OTH Man, I find your statement that since you believe that homosexuality is wrong you HAVE to back this amendment rather flawed in logic. You can believe what you want to (although I find it rather offensive but that's besides the point) whether this amendment had gone through or not. You can still life your life the way you think your god wants you to and if you believe that other people will go to hell for what they do isn't that just their problem, not yours?

People who are against gay-marriages continuously refuse to view it from someone's perspective who doesn't believe the same things as they do. I'm an atheist (agnostics at some times) and I simply do not believe that homosexuality is a sin (I don't believe in sins for that matter but that's a different debate), so what gives them the right to create a law that goes against what I believe (or not believe in this case)? You could argue that not making amendment goes against their belief but the flaw in that is that making the amendment to ban gay-marriage takes something away from people who do not think the same as them whereas making it legal for gays to marry does not.

(I used I a lot in the last part of my post but it's a bit of a mute point since I don't live in the US, it's just more dramatic that way. :D)

seth_is_my_baby

06-15-2006, 09:09 AM

I don't see any problem with gay marriage.. if two peole love eachother, then they should be allowed to get married.

OTH man

06-15-2006, 12:04 PM

Ashlee- what do you want me to do, lie?

I respect you're right to believe what you want about homosexuality, but do you really think it's right for one group of people's beliefs to decide the rights of other people? If the majority of people believed that straight marriage was wrong, and the government decided to make laws to please those people, that would be WRONG, right? America is about freedom of and from religion, and the right to do what you want. So, you can still think homosexuality is wrong while understanding that banning gay marriage is completely un-American, and you claim to love America. Many Christians are morally against homsexuality but intelligent enough to accept that their beliefs aren't enough to dictate other people's lives.

I don't think it's right to base laws on a specific groups but I do think that if we are the UNITED States, we should ALL have a voice and if the majority of the nation is against it, we should listen to them, if more people are against something, its only logical to listen to the majority, yes most of the majority, as myself, might of gotten the belief to be against it through religion but, if most people are against it, regardless of where THEY got it from, it shlould be a valid thing to base a law off of

(and yes, I realize most of this I am repeating)