Child Abuse

[Quinton]

Right now legislation is rushing through our country to repeal a section of the Crimes Act that allows parents to use reasonable force as justification to physically discipline their children.

It's caused quite a bit of uproar from people who claim that by repealing the act it takes away the rights of parents. There are also those on the other side who say the law as it currently stands unfairly discriminates against children.

I can see both sides and there have been an incredible amount of graphic cases of assault on children. The most shocking was against newborn twins. "Murdered" would be putting what happened to them, nicely. But at the same time people are getting more and more violent and at younger and younger ages. Most of the people my age and older were spanked as kids and came out as pretty decent individuals.

[Heather]

Please define reasonable force. Since we're pretty much the same age, I see a clear difference between discipline and abuse.

[*Ashlee*]

Those people who were spanked at a younger age also grew up in a different time than now. Im not trying to age anything but things i certainly different now then when i was a kid. Kids are swearing in grade one and two. Parents are home less and less and kids are left with people who are practically strangers taking care of them. Many parents dont have the time to spend with their kids lately, so they can money and items to compensate for this. Teachers are caring less and less because they are getting more and more work with less money and resources. I Dont think more spankings and other reasonable forces is what is needed, i think what is needed are people who involve themselves in childrens lives, disciplnine properly and go back to a world where the parent is the parent and instills values and respect in children.

[Heather]

But, Ash...my mom went back to work when I was year old. My brother and I got spanked. Were we abused? No way. Where we physically reprimanded if the situation called for? Hell, yes.

I just think that once you cross that line, you cant go back. And yes, abuse has to be monitored and taken care of. But discipline and abuse are two very different things. And discipline, where children are involved, is needed. Its part of the conditioning process.

Kids test the boundaries. Its what they do. And you can only say "no" so many times before they realize there are no repercussions coming, and push the boundary.

[*Ashlee*]

Ya I get that. I on the other hand was only spanked one time and I am fine too. That just suggests to me that there ARE other factors than using spanking. I am not saying I am against proper physical discipline but I just dont believe thats the only part of the recipe needed when it comes to disciplining a child.

[Heather]

But when the other parenting factors are evident, the discipline isnt needed. And I think that is really the crux of the problem. Honestly, thats why Im not teaching right now. Parents passed over the blame to the teacher, instead of accepting the fact that their kids werent doing what they needed to do. The kid doesnt perform well, its the teachers fault. And I just got tired of dealing with that.

Parental responsibility is at an all time low, and I think that is what the real problem is.

[*Ashlee*]

But when the other parenting factors are evident, the discipline isnt needed. And I think that is really the crux of the problem. Honestly, thats why Im not teaching right now. Parents passed over the blame to the teacher, instead of accepting the fact that their kids werent doing what they needed to do. The kid doesnt perform well, its the teachers fault. And I just got tired of dealing with that.

Parental responsibility is at an all time low, and I think that is what the real problem is.

This is pretty much my point lol Parents are not being parents. This is a problem and a big one at that.

[Heather]

So we concur. :lol:

[Ashlyn]

I'm against spanking. First of all, I don't think it really teaches children anything but fear. As a child, I was spanked, and all I learned was to be afraid of my father. I actually took that with me, and it is still here. Young children don't generally have malicious intent when they do "bad" things. I don't see why inflicting physical pain is a proper response to it.

[*Ashlee*]

The one time I was spanked it was because I took off on my bike for hours when I was ab out 8 years old. I didnt see it as a big deal but my parents had no clue where I was and could not find me. I walked in the door and i got nailed in the ass. You know what, I never did it again.

I dont necessarily approve of constant spankings, but if used effectively then I think they can be beneficial to a situation.IT shouldnt be used as a threat either. It shouldnt be used without explanation which is paramount!! you can not spank a kid and ship them off without explaining what they did wrong and how they should have dealt with whatever it was

[Heather]

I dont necessarily approve of constant spankings, but if used effectively then I think they can be beneficial to a situation
I completely agree. I wasnt slapped as a kid, or spanked really. But...I was belted once, and I deserved it. It was for something I will only admit to through PM, but I was completely wrong. My parents caught me, and I was punished, but I still did it. It was stupid, and wrong, and immature. And after that belting incident, I never did it again.

Good thing, too. Because once I was 18, it would have landed me in jail.

[everwoodisfab]

I dont neccessarily feel that kids should have to be reprimanded physically, I used to get spanked every now and again when I was little but never hard enough to hurt it was more the idea that when it happened I knew it was a punishment and I had done something wrong. It only happened 3 or 4 times though- there are a lot of other forms of discipline that can be just as effective if implimented properly.

Parents are home less and less and kids are left with people who are practically strangers taking care of them

I was left with a childminder between the ages of six months and 13 and I dont feel neglected or like my parents did anything wrong. I think it depends on the values instilled in children and how parents act when they are around.

[Faith]

I don't agree with spanking

My parents did it rarely, but the times they did do it when I was young really effected me. It never made me think, 'right, don't do that, it's wrong,' it made me think 'right, don't do that, I don't want to get hit.' Which isn't the right mindset, I don't think? I just think there are others ways

[danyjoncew]

I agree with everyone here in some way.

I agree with Heather that there is a line to be crossed between abuse and discipline. And I agree kids are always pushing boundaries. Hell, is what humans do even as adults :lol:. And if we are talking about legislation, this line needs to be defined.

That said I think the line is really not that clear and easy to see. As a child I used to think that everytime an adult hurt me and my brother it was just something older people did to show us we were wrong. Looking back at it? It was awful, left me with problems to deal with later on in life and I saw that they were just pushing their ideas of right and wrong on me, when truth is I've always been on my own to figure out what's the right thing to do. So I see now that these "events" clearly leave more bad memories behind than add moral values at the time, in most cases (or at least that's what I believe)

So... I definitely agree with everyone who doesn't think spanking is the way to go. Like Gem said, you can't teach a child anything if the said child is always thinking getting hit is the reason why they shouldn't do something.

And yes, parents should be more involved with their children's lives. Now, if you spend most your family time spanking children, something is clearly wrong. It might be easier and quicker than talking, but it's just not right.

[Kari]

Well, I was maybe slightly disciplined at times. It never hurt and it did not need to. I felt ashamed and thought of what I did.
And anyways words were always more effective to me than physical disciplining.

I think, however, we all pretty much can decide when disciplining is violent and when it is, to me it comes down to child abuse. No question there.

[*Liz*]

I have never been spanked or sent to my room or had any privilages taken from me. If I did something bad (which I hardly ever did) my parents had a long talk with me about making me see why the thing I did was wrong.

And I turned out good and so did my brother so it must have worked.

[danyjoncew]

Kari, I think each person will have a different idea of what violent is. So how do we judge that?

Liz, long talks are scary too :lol:. Whenever I'd get one I'd just feel completely bored and annoyed.

Just... get your children some books and they shall be fine :-p.

[*Liz*]

exacly, and you don't want to sit in another long talk again... so you won't do the thing you did :lol:

[danyjoncew]

Yes!!! So we get back into the whole "I won't do this or that because of my parent's reaction to it" thing instead of seeing it was wrong :lol:. Why am I laughing, parenting is serious business........ ahahahah.

Yes, I am normal... kind of.

[*Liz*]

hahah well I understood it was wrong and always felt bad without them having to tell me if I did something wrong

[Quinton]

Please define reasonable force. Since we're pretty much the same age, I see a clear difference between discipline and abuse.Reasonable force is pretty much spanking.

And whoever said we live in different times was spot on. Growing up I spent most of my time outdoors playing where kids today tend to stay indoors playing videogames.

And definitely parents have passed on a lot of the responsibility. When I was a kid my parents always stayed home with us. These days parents hand their kids over to caregivers all the time so they can get a "break".

[Webeh]

I have to admit that I'm a bit on the fence about spanking. On side, I think it does work in some cases and families. But, it really depends on the level of restraint the person is capable of.

However, I'm personally not a fan of being on the receiving end of spanking. As a child when I was spanked, in a lot of cases, it was for all the wrong reasons. Usually, it was because my parents were in a bad mood and I put up the smallest of resistance to obedience. (I've been disciplined better without the use of spanking.) Also, when the spanking was the result of a moodswing, it was rough and hard. I only learned to minimize my presence when my parents were in a foul mood. (Don't worry, I didn't live in constant fear of my parents. I just really didn't appreciate it when my parents decided to spank to relieve their anger.)

So, as you can see. This isn't an easy issue to make a decision on. Some parents have a better sense of severity than mine. But also, a lot of them don't.

There is one thing I'm very sure of about the whole spanking issue. I don't think parents should be allowed to use objects to spank. (The way I see it. When a parent picks up a blunt object, there is an intent to commit harm. That's the wrong intention for spanking altogether.) Also, I don't think teachers should be allowed to spank any student period. If there's a problem, use the school policies that are in place. That's what they are there for.

[everwoodisfab]

And definitely parents have passed on a lot of the responsibility. When I was a kid my parents always stayed home with us. These days parents hand their kids over to caregivers all the time so they can get a "break".

That's a little harsh- parents have lives, alot of them work, you can't ask someone to give up their entire career and life when they have children. I started going to a childminder when I was six months old and so did my brother and we both went until we were 13- both of my parents have full time jobs but as soon as they finished work they picked us up and looked after us themselves. The other kids who went to the same childminder are some of my best friends and the couple that looked after us are surrogate family. It's not neccasarily a bad thing to leave kids in the care of someone else it's how you treat them when they aren't and who it is that you actually leave them with that needs to be considered.

[Heather]

From the time I was a year old, both of my parents worked full time. But they didnt pass the responsibility of parenting to someone else, they took it very seriously.

And Q, you're right. When we were kids, being inside during the summer was a punishment. Now, you never see kids playing outside the way that we did.

[danyjoncew]

It's all a matter of using well the time you have with your kids, no matter how much time that is really.

[onebadkitty]

Oh yes folks it is once again time for Kitty's two cents. Please sit back, be prepare to be offended, amused, annoyed or a little bit of all!

First off I am a mom, I have 4 girls, most folks know that about me.

I am firm believer in spanking! Before any of you think I am cruel or evil read the entire post before you have a go at me.

I was spanked, sometimes for things I did deserve and some for things for that I didn't deserve, but was caught in the crossfire.

My dad rarely spanked me as I child. (He use to beat on my mother , until she had enough and kicked his ass, then kicked him out) I don't have much respect for him. His idea of discipline was letting step mother #1 verbal abuse then pawning me off on my grandmother because stepmother #1 was using me as an excuse of why their marriage was failing.

My mom and my grandmother were the enforcer. When we got spanked, those two did it. I have been spanked with a whole hell of a lot of things, hell I can even tell you about the worst spanking I got was. I can also tell you that my brother has never raised or put his hand on a woman out of anger because my mother was the enforcer in my house. I have respect for my mother, she was a single mom, raising two kids on her own, working 2 sometimes 3 jobs, so that we could have enough to get by. Sure she spanked me, but it has made me a better person.

I spank my children. I don't always spank them when they are bad, but there are certain things that warrant a spanking in my house:

hitting, biting, pushing offenses will get them spanked
sticking items in sockets will get them spanked, because it scares the hell out of me when they do that and they could kill themselves.

There are just sometime were you cannot sit down a two year old and discuss all the things that they have done wrong and expect them to understand everything you are saying to them. Sure time outs work, but sometimes they remember a good swat more then a timeout.

Now child abuse I do not agree with it. Hurting a child just because is never ok. Parents that do things like that should not be parents. It is one thing to spank, it is another thing to beat the hell out of them.


now that I have rambled on on on with no sense of reasoning, please comment, pick apart my post and another thing yall folks do. I will be back soon with more of my annoying opinions :)

[Heather]

Aww...Kitty....*hug*

There are just sometime were you cannot sit down a two year old and discuss all the things that they have done wrong and expect them to understand everything you are saying to them. Sure time outs work, but sometimes they remember a good swat more then a timeout

Now child abuse I do not agree with it. Hurting a child just because is never ok. Parents that do things like that should not be parents. It is one thing to spank, it is another thing to beat the hell out of them.
I couldnt have said it better myself.