Media Bias

[Ashlyn]

This topic seemed to be spilling over in our threads, and since it's something that is sure to illicit a lot of discussion, it felt appropriate.

Lets discuss, shall we?

[*Ashlee*]

here is an article that points out all the reasons why it is:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1067

[Ashlyn]

I skimmed it, and found it quite interesting.

I have to say that I completely believe Fox has a distinct conservative bias, hell, we even laugh about it in my journalism classes, but in the end I really don't care. As long as people are aware of it (and they seem to be) I don't really mind if people like Bill O'Reilly and Ann Coulter want a place to spew their crap.

See to me I don't and will not even read that. Why won't I? Because I can find you the exact article about say ABC, CBS, or NBC. Have we all forgotten Dan Rather? Aka "Rather Bias?"

There's no point in showing me an article from a left wing organization. Not trying to be mean, but that is the truth to that. People attack Fox News but again why do they? Why don't they attack the liberal media? It's like the pot calling the kettle black. People complain but only do so against Fox News, when other stations do just as much if not more biased reporting than Fox ever has.

I don't understand why you refuse to read the article. If it's facts, then it's worth reading, isn't it? At very least to see what the opposing side believes to validate your argument even more?

As for the pot calling the kettle black, if they're both black, then we should call them both black, but we can't just decide not to call anything anything because there might both be black. (Which, however, I disagree with.)

[Jon]

I don't disagree, and honestly I wish the title of this thread was Bias in the media, not Fox News and its bias. To me that title is biased.

[*Ashlee*]

I actually agree with Jon about that. The title and this thread should be Media Bias, that way both sides can weigh in and feel welcome to do so :)

ETA I took it upon myself to change the title :)

[Ashlyn]

I don't mind changing the title, however it was titled that way because that is what we were dicussing, and the question mark after it hints that it's not a fact, so I think it's being a bit nit-picky to call the title biased, but whatever.

I'd really like to know why you think Fox News is NOT biased, instead of just saying "well everybody else is biased too," and I'd love for you to combat points in the article, but if you won't read it, we're probably at a standstill.

[*Ashlee*]

I totally get what the thread was titled that way, I just thought it would be a good thread to discuss all media biases.

I think that media is screwed today. Journalists cant seem to be objective on either side, at least for the most part. The media is owned by such a small group of companies that most people do not even know where their news is coming from!

[Kari]

What is the big deal with FOX being biased? We all know media is not like...God, who is fair and views every person equally...and blah.

It is a conservative station, so what?
It is the same with newspapers, they do not make a secret of the fact that they often have a tendency towards the left or the right. If they are good newspapers they will however have the balls to discuss objectively. That is not impossible.

Yet, I see no problem in media bias as long as it is not hidden bias, as long as we are not being indoctrinated.
We all have the possibility to inform ourselves, don't we?
If I want to form an opinion I do read three or four articles from several newspapers and make my mind up. I think.

That is what we all should do and then this will not be such an issue. We just need to be aware of the fact that people are never free of interests. That is as simple. Believing that all journalists, at any news station or paper are objective and fair purists would be naive.
They are not, but we have our eyes and brains to see and think.
That is what I find so particularly nice about democracies. We have more than one source and the right to make up our minds.

I discussed that with a friend today. he is in the conservative party and you know, I am sort of liberal :lol:
He said, I don't care whether you are an ecologist, a liberal, a conservative, a socialist...all I want people to do is to be flexible, to consider other opinions and to go and vote, because otherwise this democracy will die.
And he is quite right...

...which is also why I think simply refusing to read an article because the source might not share your opinion is rather inappropriate in the course of a debate.

[amberdawn]

Fox News is really the only place where you can get the news WITHOUT a bias. They let both democrats and republicans speak their minds, which is more than I can say for most news programs. I honestly can't see why anyone is saying they have a conservative bias.

[Ashlyn]

Well, Amber, there is an article that points out certain examples of bias that you could debate with us. It shows why we believe Fox is biased.

So, I guess that if a network news anchor called a conservative senator a "hostile enemy" you'd take it as an example of bias?




Yeah... Fox News did that to Ted Kennedy.

[*Ashlee*]

I am curious, other than a couple programs perhaps, why people are trying to exempt FOX from being biased. You can claim every other one is biased(which is probably true in most cases, i admit that), but why try to protect fox

and kari, thats the thing, they DO try to hide it.."fair and balanced".."we give you the news, you decide"....

and this not a pick on fox news thing, feel free to post articles about other networks doing wrong

[amberdawn]

Well, Amber, there is an article that points out certain examples of bias that you could debate with us. It shows why we believe Fox is biased.

So, I guess that if a network news anchor called a conservative senator a "hostile enemy" you'd take it as an example of bias?




Yeah... Fox News did that to Ted Kennedy.
That is ONE news anchor. And no, I wouldn't take it as an example because that is one person, not the whole network. I take it you don't watch Fox News because if you did you'd know why I don't see it as bias.

[Kari]

What I don't get is that the only ones who claim that FOX is not biased are conservatives.

I mean, I do not claim that there is any unbiased station, but I don't think FOX makes much of a difference.
Actually if there is one news corporation I do like and feel good about it is BBC.

[Ashlyn]

But we've clarified that that at least one program on Fox News is biased.

I don't watch Fox News because of all the examples of bias I've heard. If you'd like to convince me, how about you TELL me why it's not biased, and combat the examples given, rather than just telling me to watch it?

Even we at Fox News manage to get some lefties on the air occasionally, and often let them finish their sentences before we club them to death and feed the scraps to Karl Rove and Bill O'Reilly. And those who hate us can take solace in the fact that they aren't subsidizing Bill's bombast; we payers of the BBC license fee don't enjoy that peace of mind.

Fox News is, after all, a private channel and our presenters are quite open about where they stand on particular stories. That's our appeal.

... said by the London bureau chief to the Wall Street Journal. Even THEY know they're biased.

[Webeh]

Honestly, I don't think an objective newscast exists anywhere. Even if a network doesn't explicitly make comments about certain parties, you can often find a bias based on what stories are covered and how. For example, if there's more stories covering the mistakes of the Democrats or liberals, it leans more towards the right. If it's vice versa, the network leans towards the left.

The preference may not be intention, but it does happen because the people who design these programs are human. Also, the whole point behind the various news outlets is to sell a product. (If it wasn't, why have so many sources of news available. It would be a lot more balanced to just have everyone work at same place.) If the organization knows that most of their clients/customers tend to be left/right wing, their products are going to lean in that direction as well. That's why you can't just take everything you see or read in the news at face value.

[OTH man]

What I don't get is that the only ones who claim that FOX is not biased are conservatives.

I mean, I do not claim that there is any unbiased station, but I don't think FOX makes much of a difference.
Actually if there is one news corporation I do like and feel good about it is BBC.
Truely, it's because Liberals heard FOX is bias, and refuse to watch..

Honestly, H&C is the most unbias show on air

Sean will come on and talk pro-conservative, right before alan comes on and talks pro-liberal

also, they have Liberal guests ect.

maybe some other shows are bias but at least that one isnt

[Heather]

I think this all started because FNC was the first channel where Conservatives were actually heard alongside Liberals. Both have an equal say on that network. Conservatives are not automatically wronged or maligned, like on CNN, or MSNBC, so of course Fox must be biased towards them.

Someone used Bill O'Reilly as an example. I would like to point out that Bill is an independent, and has taken as much issue with Conservatives, as he had with liberals. He doesnt hold back, he says what he thinks, is honest, and nobody is over reproach, whatever your political party.

[amberdawn]

I agree Heather. Bill O'Reilly doesn't always agree with conservatives, and he doesn't always agree with liberals. Hannity (conservative) and Colmes (liberal) is another show I enjoy because they both have equal say. On every show on the network, there is always an equal amount of conservative and liberal guests/politicians who speak on the programs. They are allowed to argue with each other and speak their minds. Neither party is favored on FNC.

There Ashlyn, are my examples. If you don't believe me or think I'm being baised, then that's ok.

[OTH man]

Exactly, because Conservative have equal say on Fox, we're bias

when really CNN, CBS, ect. are all Liberal-bias
---
CNN: How do you feel about Bush's tactics in Iraq?
Solider: How do you feel about about us, the soldiers who die for you?
CNN: We respect you, but not the president.
Solider: Then your not respecting us, so shut up you stupid Liberals

[Heather]

Did anyone watch the O'Reilly factor when Stephen Colbert was a guest? It was really good. Bill gave him a fair say, and even found himself laughing more than once.

[Ashlyn]

I wasn't that impressed with the interview, actually. I don't see what Bill-O's point really was with the "little Stephen Colbert" nonsense. Was he trying to out him as a comedian? Umm... we got that. Then again with the critic stuff... out his show as tounge-in-cheek? Seriously?

I loved how Bill-O lied and said that he did a "study" an discovered that stoned slackers were the ones watching The Daily Show. It's an out-and-out lie, but I guess it makes the man feel better.

[Heather]

Well, to be fair, different study groups get different results. The study group he was referring to could very well have stated that. Just like the ones you posted said what they did.

But personally I find it pretty insulting that a study actually said that Daily Show viewers are more informed. He doesnt report the news, he mocks it. I have never been a fan of those shows.

[Ashlyn]

You really think a study group came up with accurate facts about "stoned slackers" watching Jon Stewart? :lol:

Okay, if you can find me his facts, I'll apologize, but until then, Bill-O is a liar who says his presumptions like facts despite their complete lack of truth and never apologizes.

[Bely]

Well, to be fair, different study groups get different results. The study group he was referring to could very well have stated that. Just like the ones you posted said what they did.

But personally I find it pretty insulting that a study actually said that Daily Show viewers are more informed. He doesnt report the news, he mocks it. I have never been a fan of those shows.


okay,it's clear you don't watch the daily show. Jon doesn't mock the news,he's just trying to show the irony of it,how ludacris everything really is,and that still doesn't mean he's lying about facts. Everything he brings are still facts,are still news,accompanied by his refreshing and hillarious interpretation of it.

[*Ashlee*]

Study groups, especially really..non-professional or non-ethical ones, target people they know will give them the results they want. The results may have been right for the group they targetted but there is probably a VERY poor representation. Some people will believe anything nowadays..

And no one is saying there are not many stations that arent liberal biased, we know that, we just want people to admit that FOX is conservatively biased. I mean, if people who actually work there can admit it, why cant you LOL

The only message the daily show sends REALLY clearly is JS stance on the administration...the anti-bush lol he can go either way on some issues(though yes, still biased, im not denying that), but his problem seems to be more being against the bush administration itself lol

[Bely]

Study groups, especially really..non-professional or non-ethical ones, target people they know will give them the results they want. The results may have been right for the group they targetted but there is probably a VERY poor representation. Some people will believe anything nowadays..

And no one is saying there are not many stations that arent liberal biased, we know that, we just want people to admit that FOX is conservatively biased. I mean, if people who actually work there can admit it, why cant you LOL

The only message the daily show sends REALLY clearly is JS stance on the administration...the anti-bush lol he can go either way on some issues(though yes, still biased, im not denying that), but his problem seems to be more being against the bush administration itself lol



well not really,ok yes really cuz he does do bush impressions alot (and it is quite funny no matter what people say) but at the same time he's also known to critisize kerry,or any other member of the democratic party,he also made fun of the first mexican president/first black president/first female president the dem's got going on and that's why i like him,he isn't afraid to voice his opinion and that certainly doesn't mean putting dem's or liberals on a pedestal

and also,it's not necessiraly being against bush as in,you know,no matter what bush would do,jon would find something to say something bad about him,it's not like that,it's just more a critique towards a failing administration. I'm sure he would do the same thing if it were clinton,in fact,i believe he did critique clinton too

[Webeh]

Okay, if you can find me his facts, I'll apologize, but until then, Bill-O is a liar who says his presumptions like facts despite their complete lack of truth and never apologizes.

Isn't Bill O'Reilly the guy who thought Canada legalized marijuana? I remember this because that whole segment was incredibly hilarious. (They played it on the news over here.) He lured a Canadian politician onto the show under the false impression that they were going to talk about trade. As soon as the segment begins, he dives into this rant about how Canada has legalized marijuana, which was not true at all. (There was a discussion going on about decriminalizing it, but that's still an entirely different thing from legalization.) The Canadian politician, she spent the whole segment trying to correct his error. Of course, his response was always that she was wrong, which was wrong. Yes, that was funny to watch. ;)

[oclover24]

Let's be honest here - everyone is biased. Read most newspaper articles and you can see liberal and conservative slants, watch most news programs and see liberal vs. conservative slants. I really don't think it's going to be changed anytime soon either.

[OTH man]

How are people saying JS doesnt mock news?

really, he may say one news bit in one entire episode, you'll learn more watching the SNL news.. and thats sad

[Heather]

How are people saying JS doesnt mock news?

really, he may say one news bit in one entire episode, you'll learn more watching the SNL news.. and thats sad
I dont know...I always like the Weekend Update. :lol:

[oclover24]

^ I love Weekend Update as well!

FB isn't up to date with the whole DST thing yet, right?

[Kari]

I am a huge fan of The Daily Show...not because it gives news. It is a comedy show for God's sake. I get a good laugh out of it and I get that it is not everybody's kind of humour. But that is okay. It never claimed to be a news show and it can hardly be Jon Stewart's fault that many people, especially young ones, replace the news by watching the Daily Show.

Seriously, what is with this whole media bias debate? Media bias has existed every since media has been existing. I don't consider it a big deal...Better than censorship.

[Bely]

How are people saying JS doesnt mock news?

really, he may say one news bit in one entire episode, you'll learn more watching the SNL news.. and thats sad

you know,if you don't watch the daily show (and it's clear that you don't) you should't critisize it or make false accusations about it. I don't watch o'reilly factor or whatever it's called so that's why haven't said anything about him and his show. Like i said before,he doesn't mock the news,it's more of a critique as in,how can that be news? how did we get here? and like i said before he just gives his funny interpretation of it. What i find sad is that you compare SNL with the daily show. Yes i love snl,it's funny,but it aint the daily show.

And also may i remind you of that study that was made that show that daily show viewers are more informed than any other viewer watching any other news program.

[Kari]

Studies...are, well...the most biased thing that there could be.

But frankly, I think the Daily Show viewers are probably not the least educated TV viewers and they are probably quite aware of the fact that it is humour. It is satire. It is a satire of news shows and of politics of all kinds, left and right. Though we all know it has a very strong inclination to the left. But why are we debating that now.
I mean, there can be no doubt about bias on The Daily Show, neither on O'Reilly's show.

Me personally, I am sort of scared of Bill O'Reilly because he seems to be a very angry and hateful man with a lot of personal issues that are eating at him.

[OTH man]

First off, I have watched the Daily Show, twice. Hated it both times.

I love the SNL news too, but i dont rely on that..

and Bely, this whole mini-debate within the debate spouted from that study, so how can you use that?

[Kari]

Can we just agree that studies find out what they want to find out, and leave the Daily Show behind, because really...debating John Stewarts political bias would lead us nowhere and it is pretty apparent why you hated it, too...:lol:

[Ashlyn]

The Daily Show certainly has a bias. It isn't a "news" show, so it doesn't really have any responsibility to journalism to be unbiased.

However, I think it makes sense that since JS uses humor to explain/mock the issues, people watching them would learn and understand the issues.

[Jon]

I disagree if someone watches a person mock an issue, then they won't learn or understand. Most likely they'll just shun the issue and not care. Why would someone care if they're watching JS mock an issue?

[Ashlyn]

They still learn ABOUT the issue. He doesn't necessarily mock the issue, he just presents it in a hillarious way. The data shows that people who watch it are informed on the issues, so believe it or not, it works.

[Kari]

I would not watch The Daily Show if I was not interested in news. I mean, if I just need a laugh I can also watch Germany's Next Top Model...or something alike.

It is not like Jon Stewart didn't have quite a high level and it is not like absolute "stone slackers" would even get all of what he says and explains.

[Heather]

Can we please get off the Jon Stewart conversation, and talk about bias from the actual media?

eta

Case in point of the "mainstream media bias... Click Me (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2007/01/the_troops_also_need_to_suppor.html).

Might I also add, that this was written by a military analyst for NBC News. Is it any wonder why I dont watch NBC news, or any of its ilk?

[*Ashlee*]

Okay, first, JS is media lol He may not be a newspaper or news channel but its media. The title isnt news bias, its media bias lol That can include other forms that fit the conversation.

That article is under the opinion section so bias is to be expected lol

[oclover24]

I just realized that one station here in Minneapolis is very conservative. It just sort of hit me. There is definitely a bias there.

[*Ashlee*]

There are going to be stations everywhere that lean left or right. In canada, they try to educate about that now so that we can at least be aware of what is happening and learn that almost no news is going to give things straight up. At least if we are aware of the existing biases then we might be able to look at both sides of things and not believe everything we hear/read in the news. There is always going to be a spin somewhere. Many journalsts lack the ability to be objective. Many of them dont have the power to be objective. Corporations control the news. Its pathetic actually. I should win a lottery and fund a news show that is unbiased because we dont have to please anyone LOL

[Heather]

But isnt part of a journalists job to report the news, and not spin it?

[*Ashlee*]

Thats what their job is supposed to be, but that is not what it has turned into. There is always a spin whether political, religious, it can be a marketing approach, public policy etc Many forms of journalism have essentially become what the bosses want put out. SOme journalists will risk their integrity for this and some wont. The ones that wont have a hard time finding a good job.

[Ashlyn]

But isnt part of a journalists job to report the news, and not spin it?

It certainly is, and that's definitely what we learn in journalism courses. However, I think that a certain aspect of journalism has become to find what sells. FOX profits from it's perceived conservative bias, the same way the NY times profit from a perceived liberal one. A niche audience helps people to thrive, so functional journalism is certainly altered by the market being so profit-driven.

[Webeh]

However, I think that a certain aspect of journalism has become to find what sells.

I think this is where you find a conflict of interest in journalism. In school, journalists are taught to try to be objective in their reporting. But when they actually try to find work as a journalist, they find that they have to be subjective because they also have to sell a product in addition to reporting. Hence, they'll have to use a liberal style of reporting or a conservative style of reporting.

[Bely]

I think this is where you find a conflict of interest in journalism. In school, journalists are taught to try to be objective in their reporting. But when they actually try to find work as a journalist, they find that they have to be subjective because they also have to sell a product in addition to reporting. Hence, they'll have to use a liberal style of reporting or a conservative style of reporting.


yeah,actually,come to think of it,news over here is pretty objective. There is no spin or whatever,it's just stating facts and saying what happened. Also,we don't have 24 hour news channels. We "only" have news on two diffrent channels and there's a newsbulletin at i think 1 pm,6 pm and 11 pm and those bulletins last for i believe 30 minutes. I'm not much of a newswatcher,i mean,i do,but it's like when i see something interesting comes up. Most things i read online or in a newspaper.


also,totally OT here,webeh,i really really like your lamb signature when i saw that scene where he was working out half naked,i was like,ooooooooooooooooooh! so that's what he's been hiding under that police uniform :lol: i miss lamb...

[Webeh]

I miss Lamb too! Hot... ;)

[Quinton]

But isnt part of a journalists job to report the news, and not spin it?Nooooooo.

A journalist's job is to sell papers or footage. That's why you'll always see dispair and terror in the news. It's what sells. The tabloid media is exactly the same but with a focus on tabloid journalism. A picture of Brangelina will sell a hell of a lot more magazines than an article about a sickly child.

I see it in my job every day. There is a hell of a lot of good stuff, stuff that goes a long way toward making a difference in everyday peoples lives yet all the media is interested in is the latest scandal and bad news item.

[Webeh]

^ That's why everyone thinks the crime rate is a hell of a lot higher than it actually is. Hence, all these crime control initatives from politicain which are totally not necessary and don't even work. *sigh...

This might sound sad, I've stopped reading the news too thoroughly now. I tend to spend most of my time in the entertainment section and then I'll quickly glance through everywhere else.

[Metaphysics]

media bias is the epitome of manufacturing consent. depending on what context...I am talking about how some new stations manufacture consent to get the people to agree with the domniant ideology. Fox manufacture consent to a point where you think it's laugable, it's like Comedy Central for me.

Without manufacturing consent, there would be no media bias....and I'm afraid 95% of new corportations run by private companies manufacture consent to some extent. This whole bullshit about Fox being balanced is a joke....as well as other new corportations who talk about giving a impartial, nuetral prespective is just not true, at some point they do manufacturing consent. Like System of a down said "Manufacturing Consent is the name of the game, the bottom line is money, nobody gives a f***"....thats what it's all about...but also to get the people to side with you. The good thing is, I am not that stupid enuff to fall for all the news shown, some but not all

Watch independent news...no bias, no bullshit, no fuss ;)

[Ashlyn]

It all comes down to a basic difference between a market style of journalism and a public sphere style. When the journalists are journalists first, and then businesspeople second, you often don't have to deal with the biases. But in the functional world, it tends to be a market style where you there is pressure put on the journalists to make certain advertisers look good.

I think we probably see a lot more of that sort of bias: bias towards the companies that a practicular newspaper owner owns, even more than political bias.