Virginia Tech Shooting

[Webeh]

Gunman kills 21 on Virginia Tech campus
By SUE LINDSEY, Associated Press Writer

A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing 21 people in the deadliest campus shooting rampage in U.S. history. The gunman was killed, bringing to death toll to 22, but it was unclear if he was shot by police or took his own life.

"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said Virginia Tech president Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified."

The name of the gunman was not immediately released, and investigators offered no motive for the attack. It was not immediately known if the gunman was a student.

FBI spokesman Richard Kolko in Washington said there was no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack, "but all avenues will be explored."

The bloodbath took place at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus, beginning at about 7:15 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, a coed dormitory that houses 895 people, and continuing about two hours later at Norris Hall, an engineering building, authorities said.

Police said they were still investigating the shooting at the dorm — and the campus was under lockdown, with students to stay indoors and away from the windows — when authorities got word of gunfire at the classroom building.

Some of the dead were students. One student was killed in the dorm, and the others were killed in the classroom, Virginia Tech Police Chief W.R. Flinchum.

Up until Monday, the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history was a rampage that took place in 1966 at the University of Texas at Austin, where Charles Whitman climbed the clock tower and opened fire with a rifle from the 28th-floor observation deck. He killed 16 people before he was shot to death by police. In the Columbine High bloodbath near Littleton, Colo., in 1999, two teenagers killed 12 fellow students and a teacher before taking their own lives.

The deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history was in Killen, Texas, in 1991, when George Hennard drove his pickup into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot 23 people to death, then himself.

Founded in 1872, Virginia Tech is nestled in the Blue Ridge Mountains of southwestern Virginia, about 160 miles west of Richmond. With more than 25,000 full-time students, it has the state's largest full-time student population. The school is best known for its engineering school and its powerhouse football team.

The rampage took place on a brisk spring day, with snow flurries swirling around the campus, which is is centered around the Drill Field, a grassy field where military cadets — who now represent a fraction of the student body — once practiced. The dorm and the classroom building are on opposites sides of the Drill Field.

A gasp could be heard at a campus news conference when the police chief said at least 20 people had been killed. Previously, only one person was thought to have been killed.

Investigators from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives began marking and recovering the large number of shell casings and will trace the weapon used, according to an ATF official who spoke on condition of anonymity because local authorities are leading the investigation.

A White House spokesman said President Bush was horrified by the rampage and offered his prayers to the victims and the people of Virginia.

"The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed," spokeswoman Dana Perino said

After the shootings, all entrances to the campus were closed, and classes were canceled through Tuesday. The university set up a meeting place for families to reunite with their children at the Inn at Virginia Tech. It also made counselors available and planned a convocation for Tuesday at the basketball arena.

After the shootings, students were told to stay inside away from the windows.

"There's just a lot of commotion. It's hard to tell exactly what's going on," said Jason Anthony Smith, 19, who lives in the dorm where shooting took place.

Aimee Kanode, a freshman from Martinsville, said the shooting happened on the fourth floor of West Ambler Johnston dormitory, one floor above her room. Kanode's resident assistant knocked on her door about 8 a.m. to notify students to stay put.

"They had us under lockdown," Kanode said. "They temporarily lifted the lockdown, the gunman shot again."

"We're all locked in our dorms surfing the Internet trying to figure out what's going on," Kanode said.

Madison Van Duyne, a student who was interviewed by telephone on CNN, said: "We are all in lockdown. Most of the students are sitting on the floors away from the windows just trying to be as safe as possible."

Police said there had been bomb threats on campus over the past two weeks by authorities but said they have not determined a link to the shootings.

It was second time in less than a year that the campus was closed because of a shooting.

Last August, the opening day of classes was canceled and the campus closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy involved in the manhunt was killed on a trail just off campus. The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070416/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting)

This is terrifying.

[BellaBlack]

Actually, the number is 31 now.

Idk what to say

:(

[killer_cab]

31? That is absolutely horrible, and so sad. I mean, I can't believe this happened.

[*Ashlee*]

this is so sad and scary and disgusting. what motivates people to commit such horrific crimes :(

[OCallyFaN80]

31? Wow.. This is crazy. When I heard about the news, I was completely terrified. This is just.. Wow.. Speechless.

[Ashlyn]

This is so awful... it's just scary.

I feel so horrible for the students there, and everywhere. I know a couple kids in my classes said that they were already really scared -- it just brings the reality home, I guess.

[oclover24]

I am in shock. It's so scary that things like this can happen and do happen.

"The worst mass shooting in American History."
- Wolf Blizter.

[Luis]

32 deaths now, parcially confirmed by the local goverment and at least 29 injured persons. It's by far the worse shooting in the history of US in any given educational facility.

A few bombs threats took place in V. Tech last week, also.

[Ashlyn]

What is most stunning to me is the break between the first shooting and the next ones.

How can that happen?

I'm not pointing fingers, but as a student living in a dorm, it's scary.

[oclover24]

^^ Did the bomb threats have any relation to the shooting today?
^ I was wondering about that also.

[Isley]

Wow. This is a tragedy.

I am at a loss for words.

[Luis]

^^ Did the bomb threats have any relation to the shooting today?
^ I was wondering about that also.


According to the FBI, they don't know for sure yet. Thought they do confirmed that the (or one of) shooter(s) is death and that is not a terrorist attack.

[killer_cab]

Yeah, my mother is watching the press release, or whatever, with the police. He's not answering a lot of stuff....keeping things very quiet...

Two dead in the dorms, 31 in the classroom. And they thought they kept it contained...obviously not...

[Ashlyn]

Two in the dorms... this is just horrific.

[*Twinkle*]

this is just horrible.. :(

I read on a Danish website that the shooter could be the one who made the bomb threats.. to figure out how the security on the campus worked.. scary!

[killer_cab]

Yeah, they haven't decifered if there's any connection....They had an interview with the one girl who just thought it was another bomb threat...I mean, it's just so sad to think of it.

[*Lauren*]

I just found out about this. I can't even think of what to say. :(

[PrincessNeptune]

This is so terrifying. I live in BC but one of my moms friends from work, her son goes there, however he emailed and said that he was alright.

[Krysie]

Oh my. This is so sad, depressing, crazy. :( When is it going to stop.
Poor people. rip. :(

[BellaBlack]

Idk the connection either, we shouldn't judge on the bomb connection just yet.

I am so depressed, 33 total dead. Just as many injured. I hate how this is the worst school shooting in the U.S.

I also don't want to point fingers but Idk how that much time elapsed before the second--and worse---shooting occured. But then again, they were on opposite ends of the campus so it's reasonable..kinda sounds planned to me..

[danyjoncew]

"There's something wrong with the world today."

[OTH man]

Idk the connection either, we shouldn't judge on the bomb connection just yet.

I am so depressed, 33 total dead. Just as many injured. I hate how this is the worst school shooting in the U.S.

I also don't want to point fingers but Idk how that much time elapsed before the second--and worse---shooting occured. But then again, they were on opposite ends of the campus so it's reasonable..kinda sounds planned to me..
Yeah, i don't know about the bomb thing- it may be connected but I don't know

R.I.P.

[JJMS1021]

Its scary to think this could happen in any school. colleges, high schools.

[Aga]

it is a terrible thing to have happened. i live in australia and so far we are lucky to not have any school/uni shootings but you never know these days
I heard it on the early moring news as soon as i woke up. it is a terrible terrible thing to have happened. i couldnt imagine how bad it must be.
hell i go to uni every day and to think some thing likethat could happen it terrifies me

[Lily]

it's always possible that the classroom was the 'intended' target and the psycho shot the 2 people in the dorms just because they saw him with a gun or something?

this is absolutely horrific, i can't believe stuff like this is still happening so frequently

[sethsangel123]

OMG i woke up this morning and turn on the news and all i see it news reports on the shooting!! its all very very sad!

i just dont understand why these things happen!!!!! its just a mad mad world out there

[Luis]

I know a lot of people is saying that how could be possible that two shootings happening and no one did anything about it. It's simply: to those who aren't familiar with the Campus, just get some info, the thing is huge. It's a small town on it's own, it even have it's own airport. The Campus is huge and they were looking for a single soul, so I understand completely how couldn't they prevent the second shooting to happen. Not even most of the students knew what the heck happened, after the first shooting, many many of the students went to classes normally, knowing nothing.

Just giving some info here. :)

[OCallyFaN80]

They're giving a Dateline Special here.. It was so haunting. So horrible to see what those students had to go through. It's so horrible.

[OTH man]

I know a lot of people is saying that how could be possible that two shootings happening and no one did anything about it. It's simply: to those who aren't familiar with the Campus, just get some info, the thing is huge. It's a small town on it's own, it even have it's own airport. The Campus is huge and they were looking for a single soul, so I understand completely how couldn't they prevent the second shooting to happen. Not even most of the students knew what the heck happened, after the first shooting, many many of the students went to classes normally, knowing nothing.

Just giving some info here. :)
Yeah, i heard that too

they informed NO ONE about the first shootings, why?

[OCallyFaN80]

During the Dateline special, they talked about what mostly happened. They said the first shooting was at a dorm and he shot his ex-girlfriend. I think that's what I remember it was.

It was so sad to hear the students' part of the story. It's crazy. There was one kid who was in class; the shooter came to that building and came to their classroom, shot the professor and shot a few bullets, left. The students closed the door, but he came back; trying to get in and shot a few more. Then gave up and left. One kid was wounded in the leg during that moment. It was horrible.

[GuessGirl]

I feel very bad for the families who lost children because of the shooting.

[Webeh]

^ And the students who had to go through that event. Some of them will be traumatized for life. (I nearly came to tears a few time today when watching news coverage on this event.)

[OCallyFaN80]

Yeah, it's sad.. Even one reporter on Dateline, forgot his name (he's known) said:

"... an event that is burned into their souls that they have to carry around."

It was something like that, but when I heard that, I was about to tear down. It's a terrible thing for the students.

[ShannonQT85]

i was really upset hearing about this today :( its just so sad...my prayers are with the victims and their families

[killer_cab]

The one thing I absolutely hate about this situation is the people that are yelling that the police didn't do enough after the first shooting. I mean, it was virtually impossible to stop the second one from happening. My mother was so angry, and complained that they didn't block off the entire campus...I really hate it when uninformed people complain about things when they don't know the entire story. It just upsets me.

[rachelfan88]

I saw this on the news yesterday, it was so horrible!

I just don't get how that happens, I mean my country is not exactly the safest, but there are no shooting in universities or schools.

It's so sad and scary, it's still on the news and I'm just shocked, we discussed it today, how that happens, what makes a person do that and we realized how different cultures ca be.

[Manon]

Omg this is horrible. I really don't have any words for it

(I nearly came to tears a few time today when watching news coverage on this event.)

Me too. I just tuned into the news but it was almost over, so i guess they already covered the shooting, but then i read a couple of articles about it, and i just nearly cried.

What could possibly move someone to do such a thing?

[Panda]

Someone i knew was waiting on news from their son's best friend. We just heard the news, he was one of the 32 killed. He was recognized by his mother on the news, by the shoes on his feet sticking out of the body bag. I am deeply saddened by this tradgey & my prays are with all of the victims families & friends.

[Manon]

^^

omg thats horrible :(

[Krysie]

That is so sad. and he was so young too. :( *hugs panda*

[rachelfan88]

It's so sad, horrible, they were all so young.

And it's so horrible out of 33 people only 6 have been identified.

[Panda]

Thanks everyone. I know that person I knew was the third to be recognized. I just don't understand this world anymore. :(

[OCallyFaN80]

I nearly cried last night. I stayed up until 4 in the morning to watch the news about the shooting. It's just awful..

I still can't believe yesterday changed US History on school shootings. It's just so awful.. I'm just speechless, I can't say anything really..

[Danizinha]

I guess the student who did that had some serious mental instability. I doubt a "normal" person would appear at the college he goes to a shoot 32 people. Actually he shooted about 50, but thankfully some of them survived. And the news said that victims were found in 4 different classrooms and in the stairs of the bulding, so that guy was surely mentally ill. No one would shoot that number of people, let alone in four different rooms.

This is so sad. My prayers are with the victims, their families and all the students and staff that had to go through those terrible and horrifying moments.

[OCallyFaN80]

I can't believe one single guy can do such a thing like this. This is so horrible. Reporters say that they thought two shooters were possibly involved. But I think it was only one guy that did all this tragedy. People say it started with an argument with his ex-girlfriend. Then it all started, which I don't want to even begin..

The service is being held at this moment..

[rachelfan88]

Yeah, I'm watching it on CNN.

It just started, I think

[OCallyFaN80]

Yeah, it just did..

[Webeh]

The one thing I absolutely hate about this situation is the people that are yelling that the police didn't do enough after the first shooting. I mean, it was virtually impossible to stop the second one from happening. My mother was so angry, and complained that they didn't block off the entire campus...I really hate it when uninformed people complain about things when they don't know the entire story. It just upsets me.

Actually, I do think these complaints are completely justified. (This is coming from someone who's spent the last four years studying Criminology and intends to work in the criminal justice system in the future.) There was a double homicide and the police (or more specifically, the lead detective) failed to notify the school community.

On top of that, it definitely is possible to put an entire campus on lockdown or at least on alert within two hours. I've seen it done before effectively to large campuses. In fact, it happened at my school this past October. There was a bit of a bomb scare a block away, but the police decided to clear out the nearby university just in case. It took just one hour to clear out a campus with a student population of 50,000+, a faculty population of 1000+, a working population of 2000+, and an unknown number of tourists. So, it definitely could have been done to Virginia Tech. (I'm fairly certain several police officers would privately share this same opinion.)

I don't know if such police actions would have prevented the deaths of these students. (The big issue is that it might have.) But, I do think mistakes were made yesterday in the handling of this situation.

Either way, this is an absolutely horrifying situation. If this event upsets me from across the border, I can only imagine what the emotions are like in Virginia at the moment.

[jillian]

it's totally horrifying. my thoughts are w/ the families, this is just atrocious.

[killer_cab]

Panda, that is so sad...

I mean, I know the school can be locked down and such, but the comments I heard from my mom were I thought, a little hurtful. I mean, I might dare to comment on how this was held later on, but on the day of the incident to only think of how it should have been done is hurtful to me. I only felt deep sadness from it. I couldn't even think of what went wrong in the police handling. I know there were some things wrong, but sometimes people talk without thinking. My mom was off for an hour of how they should have handled it. It just bothered me for some reason...

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I heard the shooter was a student, and that almost no one knew who he was...

[amberdawn]

^_^ Yeah, and I think people need to remember that Virginia Tech is a massive campus. I can only imagine how long it takes to inform all students and faculty if there is a crisis on a campus of that size. I don't even want to guess on how long a lockdown procedure would take.

[Webeh]

killercab, I get what you mean here. People have been focussing too much on the errors themself, rather than the victims. I definitely think the mistakes should be addressed, but later. Now is the time to grieve for the victims, the students, families, friends, etc.

Today, I've heard a few things that particularly angered me. Blaming this on immigration, arming students, and forcing professors to be trained in the uses of firearms. "WTF..." is what I thought.

^_^ Yeah, and I think people need to remember that Virginia Tech is a massive campus. I can only imagine how long it takes to inform all students and faculty if there is a crisis on a campus of that size. I don't even want to guess on how long a lockdown procedure would take.

I actually brought up the situation at my school to address this. I don't know about size, but my campus has nearly twice the population size of Virginia tech. It took one hour to close down the entire campus. So, I figure that at least informing Virginia tech would take at most the same amount of time.

[Bely]

ok,i normally wouldn't post on this forum again but this incident really touched me,i mean,it's so sad,how can anyone do this? how can you shoot your classmates no matter how much you hate them,it's just... man! i'm just lost for words here,i go to college here and just to think of friends getting shot and the lives of their loved ones being shattered,it's just,i can't comprehend it,i think this shooting is beyond everyone.

About the police (i've been watching youtube and reading cnn articles today) they said that the murder at the dorms happened two hours before the massacre at the campus began. So the police thought it was an isolated incident...but wait,now come to think of it,why didn't they think of the fact that the shooter might still be around? but then again,i don't know,i mean i don't think anyone could've foreseen the massacre that happened at virginia tech. They were just investigating the murder,i don't think there was any reason to believe that further murders were going to happen. That's why i think the dorm shooting was sort of to get the police distracted which leads me to believe that the whole thing was planned and this wasn't just a fit of rage. The whole thing is still unbelievable though,my thoughts are with the families,i can't imagine what they must be going through right now..

[killer_cab]

Yeah, I really think people are taking the mistakes over the edge now. This is a sad time. I mean, this Friday will be the eighth anniversary of Columbine. I mean, it's just been a depressing week here.

[Bely]

^^ yeah,i had to think of columbine too when i first heard of this (today actually,in class,i first didn't believe it,till i came home and checked online) i still remember seeing footage of the shooters in columbine and it was just so...eerie,you could see people hiding under their desks and stuff and i've read articles (about virginia tech) where students say they jammed the door with desks so the shooter couldn't get in and in my opinion that's truely heroic,saved lives of other students,i don't know how they did it though,i mean,it sounds like the logical thing to do,but i think at that moment my brain would just freeze,unable to do a thing..

[Webeh]

but then again,i don't know,i mean i don't think anyone could've foreseen the massacre that happened at virginia tech.

This actually made me wonder how common double homocides are in Virginia. This could ultimately affect police practices in such situations.

[Bely]

This actually made me wonder how common double homocides are in Virginia. This could ultimately affect police practices in such situations.

true,now i wonder about it too,i mean,what is the innitial reaction of a cop in the face of a double hommocide? is it common? maybe the officers thought that evacuating the dorm would be enough,i don't know,i think at this point that the cops shouldn't be blamed because a kid that was at the school at the time of the shootings,that heard the shots,where the shooter tried to get into his classroom said that the cops were at the campus pretty fast,so they acted fast on that and like i said,noone could've foreseen such a thing happening because this may sound weird but from my experience watching c.s.i. (which is not reality,i know) but like when a family is murdered in their home,they don't evacuate the whole neighbourhood right? so maybe it goes the same for the campus?

[Webeh]

but like when a family is murdered in their home,they don't evacuate the whole neighbourhood right? so maybe it goes the same for the campus?

But, the entire neighborhood is generally notified about what has gone on. I don't think that even happened in this situation.

[Danizinha]

I think people are focusing on the mistakes because they imagine that many lives could have been saved if everyone knew about the earlier shooting at the dorms. Most students probably wouldn't have even gone to the classes and it would be more difficult for the shooter to do what he did.

I'm thinking that if at least all the teacher had been informed, they could have passed on the information to the students that took their classes. But I don't know if that's so easy to do. I saw on CNN that the University was trying to implement a service to send text messages to all the students, but at the time the service was still not available unfortunately.

And apparently the guy was a loner and no one recognized him, so I think that'll make things a little more difficult for the investigators.

[tutrgrrl-91]

i agree with you Dani!they could have passed the info on!it horrifies me and i was shocked when i heard about it!im not even in the states but to think of what all those families are going through is just heart-breaking:(

[Ashlyn]

Hindsight is certainly 20/20, but when this many lives are lost, it's impossible to just say "they did their best" and go on.

Hopefully one thing to come out of this tragedy will be better plans to deal with catastrophes like this.

[Danizinha]

I found this article saying that he left some kind of note in his dorm.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-070417vtech-shootings,1,176236.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed

And another one with some information about him:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting;_ylt=AnetldadHP787P0TcVGqpl FH2ocA

[Ashlyn]

No matter how much information we find on him, this still seems so hard to comprehend. Did he even know these kids? How could he be so hateful to do this to people he didn't even know?

... and dear GOD why didn't anybody listen to the English teacher?

[Danizinha]

I don't think he knew any of them, since he was an English major and the shooting took place at the Engineering building. Apparently he was angry at the rich kids, as the note said. This has got to stop happening. It wasn't any of the student's fault.

[OCallyFaN80]

During the ceremony, one of the moment of silences, I totally teared up. Just seeing what the students going though, it's so sad. You see students holding each others hands, crying on some shoulders. There was one kid, I don't know what happened, but I think something bad happened and they took him out during the ceremony. It was so sad..

The students say that he was very moody and does disturbing things.

[olivetree]

Here's my two cents...

It's weird because I felt more affected watching Columbine unfold than I did this. When Columbine happened, it was a day before my 12th birthday. I was completely stunned. Nothing could've shocked me more. Now, I don't even know. When I saw the article pop up on Yahoo! I wasn't shocked at all. Not even a little. I was sad for all of those lives lost, but I still wasn't in shock. It was as if it were to be expected. I mean think about. How many school shootings have there been since Columbine? How many kids have been killed? I feel like this has been going on for way too long for me to ever be shocked again. I guess some would say I'm desensitized from all of it. We not only have these shootings going on, but then there's the wars. How can I be shocked anymore? Since I've been born a lot has gone on in the world as far as violence is concerned. Had I not grown up hearing about wars and shootings, I would've been shocked like I was with Columbine. A few years later, I'm just not shocked anymore.

[killer_cab]

Olivetree, I feel the same way...I didn't think anyone thought that way...Columbine was a pivotal moment in everyone's lives, because it brought this horrible possibility to home. I mean, nothing like that had ever happened. Not long ago, the Amish school shooting about an hour and a half away from my home occurred, and that was dramatic. It's just horrible that I saw this, and actually thought, wow, another. It didn't really shock me...I mean, people were saying it is the worst shooting in American history, and I was barely taken aback from it. I can say that this is horrible, but it's horrible that we've all been so desensitized. I think that makes this even worse.

[OCallyFaN80]

True, but I think what's different from this is because of how one person, with a handgun, I think it was, killed over 30 people. Alongside that the campus was huge.. :shrugs:

[Panda]

Yesterday was just started off as an awful day. I was up all night worried & scared over this shooting. It has personally affected me, as I know one of the victim's family & friends. On Monday, I saw them & they told me that Ross had been missing. We tried to reassure them, telling them I'm sure he was just lost in the chaos. Turns out, my fears came to life yesterday morning when they informed me he was one of the 32 dead. Yesterday was a devasting day for everyone in my office & around me. It was something I wish nobody would ever have to experience in their life. Again, I am devasted & deeply hurt by these actions that conquered on Monday. My prayers & thoughts are deep within those who lost loved ones.

[Danizinha]

Panda: I'm very sorry for what happened. I hope you and the family of Ross will find some comfort soon and that he is at peace.

For me this was kind of different from the other shootings that have happened. I was scared of sleeping for some reason. And I was disturbed by the photo of the killer that they kept showing on TV. It affected me even when I'm not even remotely close to anyone involved.

[Panda]

I feel the exact same way. ^
I was also terrified to sleep last night, I got about 2 full hours. It wasn't as though I was scared for my life.. but I was more concerned about these students who survived & the families & loved ones of those who hadnt been so lucky. The pictures of the man scare me, to think that there is someone right outside our door who is capable of causing this much destruction. These poor students, to witness such a huge massacre, the worst in US history, must be horrifying.

[Danizinha]

That's how I felt too. I wasn't scared for myself, since I was at my own house and had no threat, but I guess I imagined how the students were dealing with it. That's something that will follow them forever. That memory won't ever go away. And it makes me really sad that they have to live with that terrible memory until they die.

I was really touched by the two "heroes" from that day. Especially with the professor who died to give his students a chance to run away.

[BellaBlack]

I am just depressed over all of this.

I think Columbine was a turning point, we all thought that was utter horror..we never thought it could get worse.

I think a lot of time should pass before fingers should be pointed. Families and friends of the murdered need answers but everything is in ultimate chaos right now. Although I think one thing should've been done...atleast after the first 2 murders they should have had a lockdown. I know it's a very huge campus and I know they didn't do it because they thought the shooter had left the state or whatever...but back then nothing was known. Or atleast they could've alerted ALL teachers and maybe had security search the grounds all over campus.E-mailing the teachers even an hour afterwards could've saved lives because I think classes at Norris Hall began at 9am...For all that could've been known, another shooter could've been involved. The e-mail could've atleast come out an hour later, then maybe all of the campus could've known more..only 2 people were killed but Christ that's still something..it happened on campus in dorms! I think the police questioned the first female victim's bf because they thought it was a domestic dispute..

But enough of my rambling. I think no matter how much we try to What If/ They could've/should've it won't help because we will never know what happened...

I think we should share the stories of those heroes who risked their lives to help others..and some who died for others:
-One of the professors (Holocaust survivor) held the door shut with his body and told other students to escape through the window (I think?) and he was fatally shot by the shooter in process of doing so
-One student who survived when a lot of his class and German Professor was shot went around helping injured students and suggested blocking the door and holding it shut with his feet, other students helped. Even when the shooter tried to shoot through the door, they stayed and held it shut.
-A class in Norris Hall heard the gunshots and barricaded the door with furniture. The shooter never entered the class. Who knows how many lives were saved. Not exactly sure about this 100%, my dad heard it on the news.

[Panda]

As was I. The boy that thought to baricade the door using a long table saved every person's life in that room. He was extremely brave to have had such a fast reaction on the situation. & The teacher who was a had survived the holocaust. My god, he saved everyone in that room also. I wish he had survived to be praised for his bravery.

[Kari]

Things like those leave you speechless at first.
Then it makes you wonder how tragedies of that extent don't make people change their mind about weapons.

[jillian]

well if one person he'd run into had a gun it would have never happened. they could have stopped him. that's why.

also i think as much as we look at his movtives and histroy we'll never find a "good" answer for what happened. nothing will ever fix what was done. it's just a horrible and terrible tragedy.

[*Twinkle*]

well if one person he'd run into had a gun it would have never happened. they could have stopped him. that's why.

also i think as much as we look at his movtives and histroy we'll never find a "good" answer for what happened. nothing will ever fix what was done. it's just a horrible and terrible tragedy.

so basically you're saying we should all walk around with a gun?

I wonder why we see this appearing so frequently in the US and not in other countries who's weapon policies are different than the one in the US..

[rachelfan88]

I don't think that the way to respond to violence is more violence, maybe it wouldn't have stopped him, there's no way into knowing that.

And yeah, Mars, I agree I mean that doesn't happen here.

[Krysie]

I wish this stuff didn't happen here... :( I've noticed too that it happens here more than everywhere else.. personally I think someone should do something.. they need to put those metal detectors everywhere.. or something!!!

[zealousheart]

I agree. As I've said to Mars about this I think the movie, "Bowling For Columbine" goes into this issue really well. Japan has violent video games, Germany has a violent past, but none of these countries have anywhere near the amount of murders as the US. We need some gun control or SOMETHING to fix this because I feel so much for those poor families and students.

[oclover24]

A lot of people have been wondering "why didn't anybody stop him? He was obviously depressed."

We say that we're going to do better next time. I even heard it so on Oprah today. They say we're going to watch for warning signs, etc. Well, I think we said that after Eric and Dylan shot up Columbine, and after Jeff Weiss killed students at Red Lake. We think we're going to change our ways, but we're not.

[BellaBlack]

Yep, I was thinking about that too, they made Rachel's Challenge after Columbine and that helped loads but a lot of these kids are never reached out to...the shooter from Virginia Tech was by a teacher, we all know that but the school never tried to get him help like she asked because "no real threats" were made or whatever.

I'm just afraid..I mean Eric and Dylan actually have FANS and FOLLOWERS. I've seen message boards and websites dedicated to them and it's scary. We thought Columbine was one of the worst and that was 12 people. what if other troubled youths look at this "worst school shooting" and start to get ideas, I mean if 32 people can get killed, what if they aim for 40? 50? I honestly never saw this coming and I don't know if it'll end here.

[oclover24]

^ I think that the Rachel's Challenge program sounds really great and should be implamented across the country.

[Krysie]

Bella, I was thinking that too. :( My friend and I were talking about that and we were saying things like this shouldn't be broadcasted or whatever because then people would get the idea to aim for higher killings but then us good people need to know about this stuff.. it's weird but something really needs to happen to make this kind of awful crap stop, someone needs to do something to help stop it, if possible.... :( This world is awful.

[oclover24]

Oprah definitely said it best - when we publicize these killers, and not the victims, future killers think of all the fame they'll get.

[OCallyFaN80]

Did anyone see the horrific tapes coming from the killer? :no:

[Manon]

no? where can you find them?

I think they should just forbid guns for "normal" people. If the shooter couldnt get a gun so easily, this might not have happened. Over here, you cant get a gun so easily. I wouldnt even know what to do and where to go if i wanted one

[Donna_Kebab]

Did anyone see the horrific tapes coming from the killer? :no:

no i havent seen it yet but i imagine they'll be up on youtube

[RedSiren20]

Hey guys, I was shocked when I read about the shooting in Virginia Tech. Some of the newspaper websites have already posted the killer's video. Try The Sun's website.

Here's the link: http://www.thesun.co.uk

[Krysie]

Manon, I know. They should make it harder for people to purchase guns/weapons. In Virginia, they have rules that the person must be in a mental hospital, or whatever the word is, for the person not to be able to purchase them. I think that law is messed up. In Texas, they can't if the person is diagoned and is on medication and they check the person's background and all of that.. that's how it should be everywhere I think.

[Manon]

or it should just be impossible. why would someone who isnt a cop need a gun?

[Krysie]

Yeah. I know right! This world is crazy, seriously.

[Danizinha]

or it should just be impossible. why would someone who isnt a cop need a gun?

I agree. It should be forbidden.

But some powerful people don't want it and keep these laws from winning.
I wonder if they feel guilty at all when things like this happen.

[Krysie]

They should feel guilty!

[Kari]

well if one person he'd run into had a gun it would have never happened. they could have stopped him. that's why.


Sorry, but how is that an argument. Yeah, a cop with a gun should have run into him, a guard.
But a society who has such a lenient way with weapons promotes violence. End of the story for me.

[BellaBlack]

I saw the vids that the shooter released :(

My question is did he do ALL of that stuff AND mail it after shooting the first 2 people? Or did he do all that stuff beforehand and have time to mail it? Then go and kill 30 people? It's insane :no:

[*Twinkle*]

I think he recorded it before everything else, Bella.. he just mailed it in the 2 hours between the murders..

He was insane.. nothing less.

[Ashlyn]

The idea is that he mailed it between the dorm and classroom killings, but recorded it all before.

[BellaBlack]

Oh that makes sense, I was hoping he didn't make it all AND mail it, that's just outrageous. the thought he went to the post office after killing 2 people is...

[danyjoncew]

Talking about a messed up kid.

I agree with most people here and just don't get the idea of people walking around with guns. I really don't understand how that's allowed at all. Really really don't.

[jillian]

"why would someone who isnt a cop need a gun?"

because of all the people that already have guns who are not cops. you can't undo the proliferation, you have to move forward. look at what happened to the crime rate in london when they banned guns. the crime rate skyrocketed. but in texas, which has a 1 to 4 ratio of people to guns (4 guns for every one person) they have a very low crime rate.

[Manon]

i still think it's quite useless and dangerous for everybody to have a gun

something like this would NEVER happen in the netherlands

[Webeh]

look at what happened to the crime rate in london when they banned guns. the crime rate skyrocketed.

You can't really blame an increase in the crime rate entirely on a gun ban. A lot of different factors go into the formation of the crime rates. Who knows what else was going on in London that would affect this.

As for what specifically, I can't comment anymore beyond that because I'm not familiar enough with either the Texas or London environment to do so.


I have to admit that as a student myself, I would not feel safe walking around campus if I knew students were carrying firearms. If a fight or argument were to break out, I would worry about it escalating into a gunfight.

Even if students were defending themselves against a shooter, I don't have enough confidence in the general public's ability to aim straight. The police already have mistakes happen with their firearms, why would a civilian be any better without the police training?

Another thing, I do find the idea of arming students in response to this a little wierd. After Columbine, the response was to implant metal detectors in schools. After 9/11, we get tougher airport security searches. But after Virginia Tech, the solution is to arm students? This directly contradicts the past responses to major disasters.

[oclover24]

think they should just forbid guns for "normal" people.

It's the American Right to own firearms, because back when the Constitution was made, I'm assuming there wasn't a strict law force and people had to defend themselves. Besides, they would never ban guns because we're allowed to go hunting for animals, and if people owned guns for animals, it's not as if they're going to stop using them for killings.

Is it outdated? Maybe. But it's a right we Americans have.

I'm not at all defending the killer, but I'm trying to get everybody to understand that it is a constitutional right, and if they banned guns, it'd be going against the constitution. I'm all for making the gun laws tougher, but not banning them at all. Letting only the police and gov't officials have guns screams a nondemocracy, putting all the power into the hands of gov't, literally and figurtivily.

Besides, I highly doubt gun laws would have prevented this.

[Manon]

letting only police and gov't officials have guns screams a nondemocracy?
wtf?
so the netherlands is not a democratic country because not every idiot with enough money walks around with a gun?

[oclover24]

so the netherlands is not a democratic country because not every idiot with enough money walks around with a gun?

I was talking about America, though I didn't state that. In America, we have the right to carry guns. If you take away our guns, it's ruining the democracy of America. It's giving the power to the higher powers, and taking away our statuses. I don't think you're not democratic because you don't have guns because it's in your law that you don't allow gun ownership (right?) For Americans, taking away our guns would be like taking away our freedom.

And not everybody owns a gun, and most people, if they do, own one to go hunting for deer and other animals. It's not as if we're all wielding AK47s.

[Danizinha]

Well what people need to understand is that this Constitutional right is making is possible for mentally ill people to kill lots of innocent people. Obviously the right thee victims have to LIFE is much more important than the right of carrying a stupid gun.

And hunters...I really don't care about what they think. We're in the 21st century. Hunting is not needed for survival anymore, it's just a sport. So what's more important: Guaranteing the safety of other americans or guaranteing the right of a hunter to own a fire arm?

[*Twinkle*]

In Denmark we vote if something in our Constitution needs to be changed.. now that is democracy! Everyone gets a say..

Have they even thought about that in the US? Laws that old can be a hindrance .. they need to be updated once in a while.

[Danizinha]

Exactly Mars. Obviously at the time Constitution was made things like this didn't happen.

Things change and people need to set their laws into the present situation. I don't know how old the American Constitution is, but I think every nation needs to review it's laws from time to time.

[oclover24]

^ Definitely agree with both of you. If somebody has an issue with the Constitution, it can be brought up in Congress. For example, Prohibition (banning alcohol) was repelled, and so was the 3/5ths of a person amendment.

But this amendment is one that a change would probably not be supported by the public. MSN-Zogby did a poll, and found that 59% of Americans believe that stricter gun laws wouldn't have changed anything. 38% of people polled believed that more guns would lessen gun mayham throughout the U.S. 45% of people polled believe this tragedy will have no effect on gun laws.

"A gun advocacy group, the Second Amendment Foundation, issued this statement: '80 million law-abiding gun owners in this country did not go to Virginia Tech or some other college campus yesterday to unleash carnage. They have harmed no one, and their civil rights should not be erased in response.'"
- http://men.msn.com/articlepollgc.aspx?cp-documentid=4732850&gt1=9311

Just some food for thought.

[*Twinkle*]

I'm not saying that you should ban guns all together. But the gun law needs to be stricter in the US..

I mean.. Was it Michael Moore who showed that you could get a gun if you opened up a bank account?! o.O Now that's just crazy!

[Danizinha]

I understand what you are saying. Many people would not support stronger gun laws. I cannot see why gun ownership is considered a civil right. After all the only purpose a gun has is harming others. No good can come from owning a gun.

And I definitely think that stricter laws could have avoided this tragedy. Maybe not all of it, but probably there wouldn't be as many victims. Just think about it. How easy would it be for the shooter to kill 32 people with a knife? Not easy. He'd have to get near them and it would be much easier to stop him. But with a gun the victims stand almost no chance.

So I think it is really selfish of these gun owners to think about their civil rights, when other people are having to face the consequences.

[oclover24]

I'm definitely for stricter laws. It is ridiclous that a person can just open a bank account and get a gun, if that is in fact true. But my dad says that to own a firearm, you have to have a permit, and take classes on how to use it. Most people that own firearms are responsible.

I see your guys point, but I just can't agree with it...sorry.

[BellaBlack]

I agree with Mars and Dani..but umm it isn't a majority of the American's faults about the way it's runned..about what "real" democracy and how it possibly might be stronger in other countries than ours..good for you but I don't think that will help in this thread and it sadly won't bring back all those killed by gun violence. Sadly, laws arent updated or changed on constitution rights a whole lot..gun control will be a big issue for maybe future political campaigns..now. Unfortunately it wasn't a "hot" issue before.

[iwantalexback]

That's so sad this happened.I didn't know until I got home from school.

[pm513]

This is such a horrendous tragedy. What kind of f*cking world do we live in? I was crying when reading the newspaper yesteday, espeically the story about the 77 year old professor who died protecting his students.

I can't even begin to imagine what these students and their families must feel like. 33 people are dead. And I think at least 29 are injured. This is terrifying.

[danyjoncew]

If you take away our guns, it's ruining the democracy of America. It's giving the power to the higher powers, and taking away our statuses. I don't think you're not democratic because you don't have guns because it's in your law that you don't allow gun ownership (right?) For Americans, taking away our guns would be like taking away our freedom.

Or maybe is just taking a wise decision of changing the law? Sometimes you gotta lose to win in a larger sence.

And funny you say, I thought the idea of anyone and crazy people being able to have guns took away your freedom, but I don't live there (although being a Brazilian gives me a pretty good idea of how it is to live in a covered war zone :-p), so if you say what does make you're feel free is having the right to walk aorund with guns... who am I to say you're wrong. I will say I don't agree with it though. I'm really big on being free and I really feel suffocated by the thought of people who are not prepared holding guns around me.

In Denmark we vote if something in our Constitution needs to be changed.. now that is democracy!

You show them, Mars! :lol:

[Danizinha]

I agree Dany. Since there's already a topic about Gun Control, I won't go on about it here.

I'll just hope that things like this stop happening and pray for the families and victims.

[Manon]

"A gun advocacy group, the Second Amendment Foundation, issued this statement: '80 million law-abiding gun owners in this country did not go to Virginia Tech or some other college campus yesterday to unleash carnage. They have harmed no one, and their civil rights should not be erased in response.'"


no, but there only has to be 1 madman to shoot a bunch of people an the entire country is shocked. really, i think it's horrible that this happened, but if you just make guns available for everyone...its not such a surprise that someone who is depressed goes crazy with it

[BellaBlack]

Gun control thread has been opened for all of those interested to go more in depth on their opinions that are being discussed here :)

[danyjoncew]

Sorry, Bella. when I posted here I didn't know there was the other thread.

[BellaBlack]

it's all good, I just wanted to inform people :D

[jillian]

thanks for opening the new thread, we were getting waaaay ot.

[BellaBlack]

Yeah, that's why I wanted to make it :lol:

[iwantalexback]

This is such a horrendous tragedy. What kind of f*cking world do we live in? I was crying when reading the newspaper yesteday, espeically the story about the 77 year old professor who died protecting his students.

I can't even begin to imagine what these students and their families must feel like. 33 people are dead. And I think at least 29 are injured. This is terrifying.


I didn't know the professor was 77.

[jillian]

anyone have an update on the wounded people? i'm hoping most are pulling through.

[BellaBlack]

Several of them have been released, I hope none got worse..

[whasp]

yhis is just too add to the other guys on page 4
there saying the campus could'nt of been notifyed in time
do they not have phones in all of the rooms & a big loud speaker.
they do at my kids school