Islam Thread

[Heather]

In light of recent events, I decided it was time for a thread about the Islamic faith.

What do Muslims believe? Why is Mecca their holy city? How do they feel about the religious customs and mandates?

This is the thread where you can ask those questions, and receive honest answers from FBs Muslim members.

Whatever the question, dont be afraid to ask. We are all friends here.

I'll go first:

How do Muslim women feel about the conditions in Saudi Arabia, and the way the religious leaders enforce the religious laws that they do? Why is it that non Saudi women dont have to be completely covered, while Saudi women do?

Another question...what is your take on honor killings?

[Ashlyn]

I don't have any questions at this time, but great idea for a thread, Heather. This religion is clearly very misunderstood in American culture, and perhaps elsewhere as well.

[*Zara*]

I'll go first:

How do Muslim women feel about the conditions in Saudi Arabia, and the way the religious leaders enforce the religious laws that they do? Why is it that non Saudi women dont have to be completely covered, while Saudi women do?

Another question...what is your take on honor killings?

nice idea so people can get to know more about the religion

as a muslim woman when i think of the conditions of Saudi Arabian women i think it is very strict but as its a mostly muslim country the leaders will enforce the islamic rules to the full extent so we cant really stop them in my opinion. im dont know much about why saudi women have to totally covered and others do not i just think non saudi women have more choice in the matter if the want to wear the full Islamic headdress and garments. im Muslim but i dont wear the scarf or anyhting as this is my choice

honor killings in my view are absolutely disgusting no where in the Quran does it say that this is justified by the religion and people who think that it is are mistaken and have twisted the meaning of the Quran to suit their own agendas!!

[Heather]

Thank you, Zara.

Another question I have is how do you feel about the multiple wives thing, and how often does that occur in the Muslim world?

[zozo]

hey:wave:

nice thread heather and thank u zara for the answers!!

but i have one thing bout the saudi women i was in a saudi forum for along time and i knew so many saudi girls and they are so different than we think they are happy with their covering and they are a fashion and rich girls so they are just satisfied with thier lives!!

about the wives multiple i really dont have enough information because it needs alot to talk about it and its conditions but allah first allowed the multiple wives for the prophet mohammed because he was need it and at that time there were some muslims women who became muslims and thier husbands divorced them or something like that so the prophet mohammed married some of them to protect them well,im not very educated about this but u should also know that allah allowed that with conditions the most important in them that is justice between the wives and the man shouldnt marry while he dont really need that marriage for his own reasons but unfortunately some of the muslim men dont really notice the rules and they do it just for fun!!
but,u know??u shouldnt blame us because many of the unmuslims men they are not faithful for thier wives and they go with another woman by secret or have sex or anything so thats it!!

and about and how often does that occur in the Muslim world, it mostly happenns in the golf countries because most of them are rich and can spend more money for more than one family and pasicly because the money are making them like blind and dont see the islamic rules!!!

unfortunately my english isnt that good and i have many thoughts in my mind and id explain more for u and i hape that u gonna understand me well!!

[Heather]

Hey, hon!

Glad to see you back posting in here. You know I always love to hear your point of view. I know that in Islam a man is allowed to have up to four wives, as long as he can equally provide for them. I was just wondering, from an emotional standpoint how a Muslim woman feels about that. To be married to a man, who has other wives.

If you want I tell you a story about how a Saudi Princess reacted when her husband wanted to take a second wife and what she did. When I told Sondos she was in shock. :lol:

Im so full of questions lately, probably because of all the books Ive read about life in the middle east.

Ok..this will probably sound silly...but why does Allah have 99 names?

[M&M Vermelha]

I might be saying something stupid, but I always thought the explanation for that was the same for the 1000 names you have for God. There is a old belief that when you know the exact name of someone, the person loses part of his/her power, it's considered a weakness.

I know you have to be able to provide for all the four wives, but can't the first wife interfere on who will be the other ones?

I wonder how it is like to wear a scarf living at US or anywhere else for that matter. I just consider the shock of culture for kids at age of 13-14 who are having enough problems to fit in on school and make friends, having the extra problem of having to use a scarf, something that will mark so much a trace of individuality in that age all you wanna do is blend in. How is it?

[*Zara*]

well emotionally i wouldn't know how a Muslim woman would feel if her husband had multiple wifes but some may make it work others may be vv jealous and annoyed by the whole situation! it doesn't happen that often nowadays probably more in the areas like Saudi and such!

i will have to research why Allah has 99 names im not sure about that!

and when i was little i used to wear a scarf and this was before 9/11 and when Islam wasn't in the forefront and i didn't really get teased or anything it felt natural to me then but i later decided i didn't want to wear it!

but some of my friends who do wear it have told me some terrible stories where they get abused hurled at them and people automatically assume they are terrorists but little girls who are determined to wear the scarf are v tolerant and even though they face all this negativity they still wear it as they say they aren't doing it for anyone but themselves and Allah.

[tommygirl887]

About the four wives thing:
It's not really recommended unless the man is able to treat all four of his wives equally. Meaning financially, emotionally etc. In today's society, it's difficult enough for a man to provide for just one family.. it would be hard to do so for two, and at the same time being as "equal" as possible. Back then, it was probably easier, but today it's more difficult, so you don't really see it happening except in the Islamic countries.

The 99 names.. it's more like adjectives. It's names in Arabic that translate like "The All Knowning", "The Forgiving", "The Most Beneficent", "The Most Merciful", and stuff like that. I'm not really sure why, I guess the names serve as a reminder of all the things He is.

I have a few friends who were the scarf, after 9/11 it was pretty hard for them, and it still is. My friend says it's hard for her to go to some places because of the looks she gets from people, but it was her decision.
Some believe the scarf is mandatory, but I was always told you don't have to if you don't want to. My friends were told the same thing, so while they do get looks, it was also their decision, so they were aware when they started wearing it regularly it was something they'd have to overcome, so usually they just ignore it.

[Heather]

One of my friends always wears the scarf. She actually color coordinates it with whatever outfit she is wearing that day. Even the pins match. :lol:

I dont think she ever had any problems because of it, but she also went to an Islamic school.

I actually saw her without it once, and it was weird to see her hair (it was in the girls bathroom, where no men would see her).

[tommygirl887]

:lol: Yeah, my friends all do the same.
They have scarves in every color to match every single outfit of theirs.
One of my friend just goes and buys scarves of all colors/patterns even if she doesn't have an outfit to match. "You never know when it may come in handy!" is always her response. :lol:

[zozo]

^^:lol: i do the same i always buy different colors to match with my clothes and also my friends!!

about your questions heather i asked my dad about it :lol:

about the multiple wives dad said that before islam the arabic man was marry unlimited number of wives so,the islam came to limit this multiple and put this rule to reduce the number of wives because if it says only one woman they will never respond to it because they were used to marry many wives so four women are better but dad also says that the justice between the wives is difficult not only with money but even with the love a feelings so its hard to do for the ppl who really care for the islamic rules!!

and about the 99 names dad says that there is no phrase in the quran refers that allah has 99 names but all the names of power and beauty is for allah and its like 99 in the arabic language but it maybe 1000 in another language!!

sooo these were the answeres of my dad he is very educated about islam while he is an engineer :lol:

[M&M Vermelha]

I've always wondered about the scarf for kids. Kids are bulled and teased here for much simple things, I couldn't imagine a 12 years old girl not being called by weird nicknames... kids are mean, that's a fact. lol

I'm glad to know you guys didn't have that many problems.

[zozo]

sometimes i think that the westerns just hate islam and always missunderstand it and other times i think thats its our fault the muslims because we should make it clear for all the world that islam is the religon of peace and its against terror anyways!!!

mmm im wondering are u a muslim???i mean M&M Vermelha :)

[M&M Vermelha]

No, I'm not.. just another curious mind around.

Islam isn't hated here.. actually, it's hard to think about a country would suffer from discrimination here in Brazil. We tease Argentina, but mostly because we are always competing, but it's just teasing really.. Brazil is very tolerant.. there is always some prejudice left, no country is perfect with that, but facing some other countries.. when I asked about the scarf I only had the discrimination kids do among themselves.

I saw 12 years old kids having the most stupid kinds of prejudice just so they could make their little groups.. for instance, my sister was once rejected by her classmates because she had blue eyes. Bulling between kids here is somewhat ignored by teachers and parents, I've always thought the scarf would make going thru that fase 3 times harder. I really hated being 13.. :lol:

[Heather]

I dont think Westerners hate Islam, honestly. I think its more a fear of Al Queda that causes peoples reactions.

I know, in my own experience, that after 9/11, whenever I saw a Muslim, I would feel awkward and wonder if they fell to the Al Queda way of thinking.

I am ashamed to admit, that hearing my friend Sondos speak Arabic pretty much freaked me out. But then once I got to know her, that feeling of unease completely disappeared. And now she is one of my best friends.

I always knew in my heart, that Islam was a religion of peace, and that true Muslims dont hold to Al Queda, and their jihad. But in today's world, when you see someone who is obviously Muslim, you dont know where they truly fall, ideologically speaking.

I saw 12 years old kids having the most stupid kinds of prejudice just so they could make their little groups.. for instance, my sister was once rejected by her classmates because she had blue eyes. Bulling between kids here is somewhat ignored by teachers and parents, I've always thought the scarf would make going thru that fase 3 times harder. I really hated being 13..
Kids are cruel. I grew up in an Italian town, and was unmercifully mocked for having "Orange" hair. To this day, I have low self esteem because of the way I was treated by other children when I was growing up. The wounds of childhood never heal easily.

Ok...really stupid question, but one that has been bugging me for awhile :lol:

What do you guys wear when you go swimming? Most of your body has to be covered, correct? So, a normal bathing suit wouldnt work.

[Jon]

sometimes i think that the westerns just hate islam and always missunderstand it and other times i think thats its our fault the muslims because we should make it clear for all the world that islam is the religon of peace and its against terror anyways!!!

mmm im wondering are u a muslim???i mean M&M Vermelha :)

To me I've never hated Islam, but it did worry me that a lot of Muslims didn't come out and condemn Al Qaeda and other terrorists.

I dont think Westerners hate Islam, honestly. I think its more a fear of Al Queda that causes peoples reactions.

I think Heather hit the nail on the head. Many of my previous posts may have sounded like I hated Islam, I really do not. I'm pretty much in fear of Al Qaeda. Look at last night with London and people saying it could be "Islamic Extremists."

[M&M Vermelha]

Between 11-13 I got really really fat, my body went crazy with all the corticoids I had to take for my allergy.. I remember I would cry everytime Free Willy was on tv, because that meant on the next day I would hear 'GOOOOOOOOOOOO WILLY' all day long. I had aneroxia for quite sometime after that, and even so I'd buy clothes 3-4 times above my size, I just couldn't see myself as someone with the normal weight.

That's why everytime I see something, like scarfs, I can't help but imagine the Hell it must be go thru that age with something different to be teased for. Kids are cruel.

Can women even go swimming with men around?

[Heather]

To me I've never hated Islam, but it did worry me that a lot of Muslims didn't come out and condemn Al Qaeda and other terrorists
I cant speak for Muslims in the Middle East, but I imagine that with Al Queda there, Hussein in power during 9/11, the Taliban, and the conditions in Saudi Arabia, Muslims who were against it, really couldnt speak out, for reasons of personal safety.

Can women even go swimming with men around?
I do know that in Saudi Arabia, the women have to be completely covered, even while at the beach. Can you imagine the heat? Since the garb they are forced to wear is black? *cringes*

Another question....through my readings, I learned that female circumcision still happens in Saudi Arabia. What are your thoughts on that? And is that a concern where you live?

[M&M Vermelha]

I think Heather hit the nail on the head. Many of my previous posts may have sounded like I hated Islam, I really do not. I'm pretty much in fear of Al Qaeda. Look at last night with London and people saying it could be "Islamic Extremists."

That's the problem with generalization, you'll always be unfair with someone. That's why it's so important to know exactly what you are saying before making a judment. Americans are hated around the whole wide world. If there is a country we complain about here, it's US, because most people feel americans have no respect for them as a significant culture.

I don't go around all the threads saying all republicans are pigheads like people do here all the time, because even though I know there are stupid republicans, there are stupid democrats and there are stupid people who don't even care about politics. And there are people with something actually interesting to say.. I just hate when people take a group of 200 and make them represent 2,000,000, even though I understand fear can do that to you.

There are people against, but you should consider who have the power over most of their press. Tv, papers.. it's not that easy to make yourself being heard sometimes.

[Heather]

That's the problem with generalization, you'll always be unfair with someone. That's why it's so important to know exactly what you are saying before making a judment. Americans are hated around the whole wide world. If there is a country we complain about here, it's US, because most people feel americans have no respect for them as a significant culture.
I hate to think that that is true. Because I am an American, and I give equal respect to all cultures, and their customs, and judge people by who they are, not what they are.

And I honestly believe, that most Americans, are like me.

don't go around all the threads saying all republicans are pigheads like people do here all the time, because even though I know there are stupid republicans, there are stupid democrats and there are stupid people who don't even care about politics. And there are people with something actually interesting to say.. I just hate when people take a group of 200 and make them represent 2,000,000, even though I understand fear can do that to you.
I couldnt have said it better myself. :lol:

[M&M Vermelha]

We don't go on streets throwing rocks, but people here complain a LOT about Americans in a general way.. which is actually funny when you see how well we treat American visitors here at Rio de Janeiro. That's very brazilian, really.. we complain, but that's the most we do. Once you are here, we hug you, offer you a beer and invite you to play soccer or volley on the beach.. lol We are very tolerant with different cultures.

I know most Americans share your point of view, Heather.. it's just stupid label a huge country as being all the same thing. Sometimes people forget they are not clones of their neighbor. I can't even agree with my sister most of the times, and we share the same genes.. lol

[zozo]

well, i dont have a problem with the american ppl and 95% of the muslims are against the queda or maybe more i just say at least they are 95% and they are getting to know how dangerous is the queda more and more because of what happenning around the world specially in some arabic countries!!

and about the female circumcision...oh thats haram..well haram means not allowed in islam is just some arabic ppl like in morocco or in other cultures do it but its not allowed here but the male circumcision is happenning here!!

well guys i want to talk alot about islam but im very busy right now :)

see u later!!

[M&M Vermelha]

Haram.. you know, by the end of 2001/ beginning 2002 we had a soap opera from a big tv channel about the muslims. Of course there was the whole traditional muslim woman falling in love for a guy from Brazil, not approved by her family.. but it actually funny at some points, they made sure to show the human side of each character, specially after 9/11. Everytime I hear haram I remember the soap opera.. lol

Guys make circumcisions everywhere but here. :( Honestly, why can't we include that culture, it's so much better when you consider the health side.

[zozo]

^^yeh its good and important for the guys i think but u know wat??i was thinking that it happens only for the muslim boys lol!

[M&M Vermelha]

No, it's very common for some countries now.. and jews too, they have being doing circumcisions for a very very long time.

And I'm a commercial actor! Lalalala! And look, it only took me 3 years! lol

[CamyWinchester]

Hey guys. I'm a fellow Muslim and I would be glad to help answer some of the questions although it might not be much help, seeing as I dont get any of those cruel jokes and stuffs, coz I live in a country where Islam is the national religion

[Heather]

What cruel jokes?

[M&M Vermelha]

I think she meant about kids being cruel.

[CamyWinchester]

Yeap, I meant that. All the bullying and stuffs just because someone looks different or someone wearing scarves.. its so sad

[Heather]

Well, kids to that to everyone who is different. I know it happened to me, and Im a Catholic. They picked on me because of the way I looked, my hair and skin coloring.

[*Zara*]

when i was little i would go swimming with my school and wear a normal costume but when i got older i just dont go swimming because cant show the body but my aunt goes to an all womens pool and yeh when i go to the beach i cant wear bikini i usually just wearing some normal trousers and a tshirt i get so boling esp in summer but i have gotten used to not being able to wear skirts and sleeveless shirts!!

[CamyWinchester]

^^ Same here. I used to wear swimming suits when I was younger, before I hit puberty and after that, it is sinful for me to show my body, so I stopped swimming. But when I go to the beach, I'll swim. I will wear a shirt with long pants and still tie a scarf to my head.. But I cant go swimming at the pool coz the rule states that only swimsuits wear is allowed in the pool

[M&M Vermelha]

Well, kids to that to everyone who is different. I know it happened to me, and Im a Catholic. They picked on me because of the way I looked, my hair and skin coloring.

At least with kids you can always grow up and find out the same kids who picked at you became really ugly and unsucessful adults.. lol.

Plus now you can say HA-HA because redheads are sexier.. that's actually the only thing I've always complained about my hair, I've always wanted it to be red!

All women pools.. it makes sense! But I can't understand how you stand the heat.. I just imagine you here, and during the summer you would melt! I do using light clothing..

[*Zara*]

All women pools.. it makes sense! But I can't understand how you stand the heat.. I just imagine you here, and during the summer you would melt! I do using light clothing..


yeh i probably would melt good thing i live in rainy england where it hardy ever sunny lol

[CamyWinchester]

When ur on the ocean, u cant really feel how warm it is..:shrugs:

[*Zara*]

and i dont wear the scarf so it prob not as bad

[M&M Vermelha]

When ur on the ocean, u cant really feel how warm it is..:shrugs:

I meant while walking on the streets.. lol

[Heather]

Plus now you can say HA-HA because redheads are sexier.. that's actually the only thing I've always complained about my hair, I've always wanted it to be red!
Thats kind of funny. I always stood out with the red hair, even in my own family. When all I ever wanted was to blend. :lol:

[M&M Vermelha]

Irish women are incredibly beautiful, the red hair just matches. It's actually the only thing I've always whinned about my hair.. lol

My sister went thru the same thing, both my mother and I are brunettes and she got my father's blue eyes and blond hair. Nowadays she just HAHA me because she also got my fathers high, so she is actually taller than me at age of 14.

There is always something to make you stand out when all you want is blend in. That's why I never envy 11-14 year old kids.. lol

[Webeh]

When ur on the ocean, u cant really feel how warm it is..:shrugs:

In the paper, I read something about fashion designers creating sports gear specifically for Muslim women. The outfits apparently follow all the traditions/rules of the religion, while still being effective in a sports environment. (Ex. Blowing wind and playing football/soccer.) Have you heard anything about this? (Sorry, I don't remember the brand name, but I can try looking it up if you want.) It might help with the wardrobe issues in relation to swimming.

Haram.. you know, by the end of 2001/ beginning 2002 we had a soap opera from a big tv channel about the muslims. Of course there was the whole traditional muslim woman falling in love for a guy from Brazil, not approved by her family.. but it actually funny at some points, they made sure to show the human side of each character, specially after 9/11. Everytime I hear haram I remember the soap opera.. lol

We've got a sitcom running right now about a Muslim mosque running out of the basement of a Catholic (??) church. Hijinks ensue. It's called Little Mosque on the Prairie (http://www.cbc.ca/littlemosque/) and it did surprisingly well for a CBC shows. (The network generally doesn't get really high ratings, unless it's for hockey. ;) ) Also, I know that the guy from 24, Chloe's hubby, is a regular on the show.

[CamyWinchester]

I meant while walking on the streets.. lol

:lol: Oopss...ok.. Lol. Its kinda warm sometimes but after a while, u kinda get used to it :shrugs:

[*Zara*]

little mosque on the prairie omg i wanna see an episode lol

[zozo]

hi everyone :wave:

[Lalune*]

Thank you, Zara.

Another question I have is how do you feel about the multiple wives thing, and how often does that occur in the Muslim world?

It depends I guess. I have a boyfriend who is muslim and he says in his culture, which means the way he believes, can only have one wife..

[Heather]

Well, I dont know where you live, but in the Middle East a Muslim man can have up to four wives, as long as he can provde equally for all of them.

[CamyWinchester]

In my country, the men are allowed to have more than one wife but must be for a specific reason and they must be rich enough to support all his wives and also to be fair to all of them.. The reason I mean is like, if his first wife cant give him a child..

[M&M Vermelha]

Is the first wife allowed to interefere on who the second wife will be?

[zozo]

yeh same here camy!!

and sometimes the wife can do that (M&M Vermelha) but not always it depends!!

[Heather]

Hey, Zahra :D

Another question. My friend Sondos told me how Muslim men can marry whoever they want, but Muslim women can only marry Muslim men. Does that bother you?

[M&M Vermelha]

I wonder how you guys ended up here, actually. I mean, most people come after Fanbolt for they are fans of some tv show, right? Do you guys have cable? Is there anything censured? I mean, some tv shows get almost too graphic with sex, so.. how does that works?

[zozo]

^^well,i dont wanna answer u..let other girls do it!!
because i really dont know how to xpress im tired of such questions!!

and heather no for me it doesnt!!

well sorry guys if im behaving bad but dads leg broke before yesterday while he was playing football and im upset about that but plz u should also ask good questions though i respond to every question and respect your questions and (M&M Vermelha) why cant we watch these shows???well,we can have sex and we have feelings but what we do is limited by the islamic rules and im happy with that!!

[*Zara*]

muslim men and women usually marry other muslims i dont think it says anywhere that men can marry other faiths and women cant i will check up on that haha i should really read more about my faith oops!!

about the tv question i joined through the rachel bilson site when the OC first started i think cos i was born in london and brought up with a more relaxed view when i see sex scenes or kissing on screen it doesnt bother me at all and my mum is really liberal in what we are allowed to see cos she trusts that im not going to go out and try the things i see on screen when i see supernatural with my mum me and her are both like ahhh they guys r so hot lol

[CamyWinchester]

In our place, we are not allowed to marry others of different faiths too. Both men and women. If we are to marry someone of a different faith, they have to convert into Islam, as to make the marriage legal.
As for the tv, I agree with Zara. Its not a big deal as long as we know where the line stops.

[zozo]

^^yeh,i agree with u girls!!
and am sorry again if i was rude lol

[*Zara*]

i asked my mum and she said that men can marry women of other faiths but women cant because usually the children will carry on the faith of the dad and the man is more likely to influence their wifes to convert to islam but it is usually preferred that they marry muslim people!! i personally find that a bit unfair but ive always wanted to marry a muslim i just think it would be easier to understand eachother if i had the same religion as him!1 thats just how i feel personally

[Webeh]

^ So, it's pretty similar to certain groups within Judaism. For some, the woman passes on the religion to the children. So, there's more expected restrictions in terms of who they can marry. Thanks for the info. I didn't know about this.

A man can convert to Islam for a marriage, right? Or, is that only for certain groups within the religion, as like in Judaism?

As for the tv, I agree with Zara. Its not a big deal as long as we know where the line stops.

I figured with television and film, people just watch what they're comfortable with. I don't think religion really comes in here. If someone likes the content of a show, they'll watch it.

For example, my uncle works for the Catholic/Christian/?? (I still have difficulties labelling this correctly) church and that doesn't affect at all what he watches. If it's available, he'll watch it. He even read the DaVinci's Code and loved it, despite the controversial book. (I think the only thing he refused to watch was Mel Gibson's film a few years back. I thought that was interesting.)

Zozo, your signature makes it pretty clear that you like to watch the OC. That's a program with both violence and sex, so I think that could function as your answer to the TV question for everyone.

[M&M Vermelha]

I just thought about the tv for the example set.. I know you can have sex, but you can't outside wedding, and sometimes shows can be disrespectful with your image of how a woman should behave and etc etc. You don't fear the influence of others culture will eventually chance yours?

[Webeh]

^ To be perfectly honest, I think this could easily be applied to all religious or social groups. Television always offers ideas that conflict with those of certain groups. But, everyone (I hope) knows well enough that different ideas exist in the world. As long as the ideals aren't forced onto anyone, exposure to them isn't a bad thing. If anything it's good because it encourages thinking and allows you to consider how you really feel about certain issues. If you believe in certain traditions, you'll continue to follow them. If not, changes caused by other cultures is good.

[M&M Vermelha]

Actually it's from the idea that you can easily apply it to all religions and social groups that I was asking, since I know quite a good number of groups that ignore or censure tv so it would 'damage' their original culture.

What you said makes perfect sense to me, but remembering those cultures that censure tv, and being muslims so taken by traditions, I was just wondering. ^^

[*Zara*]

yeh a man or woman can convert to islam for marriage!

yeh i think that tv obviously can influence peoples thoughts about sex and relationships but i think how people interpret these images into their own lives and with their own morals and religious beliefs that is what really matters if that made sense lol

[Kay]

Nice thread, wonderful idea Heather.

The only question I think wasnt answered is the marriage..A woman cant marry a man who isnt Muslim just because teh children follow the father's faith.
But yes man & woman can convert & the problem disappears, many do...

The tv question, it depends.
I have Arabic channels & they..jump over kisses, sex, etc. Anything sexual is jumped over...like say boy comes close to kiss girl before their lips touch it just..goes to when they finish, it doesnt affect the scene.
Its not for children, its also for adults...sexual acts are meant to be just between wife&husband and watching it isn't...fitting
Applied to nakedness too of course.


How do Muslim women feel about the conditions in Saudi Arabia, and the way the religious leaders enforce the religious laws that they do? Why is it that non Saudi women dont have to be completely covered, while Saudi women do?

I know this was answered but eh.
Women in Saudi Arabia are not enforced, I mean yes looking at it from afar they are but the women themselves are not really. It gets to a point where its just part of who they are & even when travelling and have the choice to take it off they dont.
& they're only completely covered due to culture more than anything but than culture becomes part of religion and so on

[zozo]

^^u r right kay....

but,here like mbc2 and mbc4 and one dubai they dont jump over the kisses i think they jump over the very sexual senses but not the kisses maybe u have different channels but these are the super channels of movies and tv show!!

[Webeh]

Wow. It never occurred to me that shows would be censored in some areas. I think generally in North America, if a certain show is inappropriate the network just simply won't show it. That's why a lot of the more violent/sexually explicit stuff are on cable channels.

But, I do think you can edit out kissing/sex scenes without it being noticed if you have a good editor, who can make it look natural.

[zozo]

^^yup..there are many creative editors who make it so natural but here they mostly dont remove the kisses!!

and when then start to kiss each other like maryan i change the channel and when they finish i recall the channel :lol:
i watch the kisses and stuff but of course i know what to do and with whom...only with my fiance lol.....but my mum doesnt like these shows and so are my brothers!!

[Webeh]

Well, if you're watching a romance program, I'm sure your brothers wouldn't like them. (Too much kissing on a show makes me want to gag too.) ;)

[zozo]

^^hehe yeh u r right.....but u know something??its not all because of kissing they want to watch sport and matches all the day lol !

[Webeh]

Ah... So, it's a one TV household, isn't it?

[zozo]

^nope we have three ones but one of them with out satalite and the other one my dad watch news on it sometimes ....so we fight on the third one :lol:

but im gonna buy one for my room very soon:D

[Webeh]

What's the point of a TV if you have no channels? ;)

[zozo]

:lol: i think that we are OT but it has two channels and they use it i mean my brothers use it for the playstation and stuff like that!!

[Webeh]

I think we're way off topic. ;)

So to veer us back in the right direction, have you ever been to Mecca?

[zozo]

^^nope,i didnt go there..but my parents went to mecca two years ago!!

[Heather]

Sondos has been there. But she liked Medina more. :lol:

[zozo]

yeh..madind is such a nice holy place!!

heather...where have u been??i missed u:)

[CamyWinchester]

I havent been to Mecca..neither has my parents. It costs a lot to go there..so, we have to have enough savings, to be able to go there

[Heather]

heather...where have u been??i missed u
Aww...Im sorry, Zahra. I have been around, just not posting much. But you know that you can PM me anytime, and I will reply as soon as I get online. :)

[Heather]

Where did all my Muslim friends go?

[*Zara*]

im still around!!

[Webeh]

Everyone's currently being distracted by Harry Potter. ;)

[Heather]

I still havent picked up my copy. :lol:

[Webeh]

Oddly enough, Harry Potter was one series I couldn't get into. I read everything else (Ex. Lord of the Rings, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Dark Materials, etc), but this one just never agreed with me.

[Heather]

Really? I love HP...and now my best friend is even into it...lol.

[Webeh]

You know, I think it's probably because everyone kept screaming in my face "HP is the bestest book ever!!" and that turned me off. You know how it is. Too much buzz and you lose interest. I felt that way about the DaVinci Code and any book on Oprah's booklist also. Same thing with all those bestsellers list.

Very odd Islam-related question. Is the Qu'ran very long? I know a lot of Muslim families like to go through it with their children when they're still young. But, I've also been told by some that it could take a few years to finish.

[Heather]

I felt the same way about HP, Webeh. But I stumbled across the movies, and loved them, and started reading the books, and I have to say, that they really do live up to all the hype around them.

As for the DaVinci Code, its a great book. But the prequel is actually superior, although not as many people know about it. Its a definite must read. The ending is more shocking, and the story itself is more compelling. Its called Angels & Demons, and I highly recommend it.

[Manon]

Yeah, the HP books are really really good. Some very good, intense characters and JKR is a genius, really.
There's a prequel to the DaVinci code? My stepdad wont read the davinci code because of the hype around it, but i'm like: there's a hype for a REASON. What's the prequel called?

As for the Qu'ran being long, i'm not really sure, but i think my history teacher said it's somewhat like the bible

[Heather]

The prequel is called Angels and Demons. Its an amazing novel. Ive read both books, and the prequel was so much better. My friend, Chris, and I talked about it, and said its a shame that it wasnt made a movie. But because so much of it takes place inside the Vatican, they probably cant make a film about it. I read it in four hours...lol.

Its very fast moving, suspenseful, and intense. And the ending is so much more shocking then the end of the DaVinci Code. Seriously, when I read it, I went back and reread the ending four times because I was like, "That cant be..."

I seriously recommend it.

[Manon]

i remember after i've seen the movie of the davinci code, i was convinced that in the book she WASNT the last decendant of Jesus Christ. it was so weird :lol:

ooh i've heard of that book! I have a ton of other books to read first,but i'll definately pick it up after i finished those then!

[*Zara*]

yeh it is very long 30 books go into the quran i havnt finished reading it yet!! im so bad at arabic i just cant seem to get the hang of it!!

[Webeh]

Ah... I get it now.

I guess all those Qu'rans they sell in the giant bookstores are just nutshell versions.

Man... 30 books. Depending on their size, they could all fill an entire bookshelf.

As for the Da Vinci Code, I did read the book and thought it was just okay. It might be the fact that I'm not at all emotionally invested into the subject matter, but I wasn't "blown away" by the book. I didn't hate it, but I also didn't love it either.

[tommygirl887]

It's split into 30 parts.. so they're not really 30 separate novels, persay, but it's one book that they split into 30 parts.
I'd say it's about as thick as the Bible.. it takes some people years to read though, because it's in Arabic and it's a difficult language to learn if you didn't grow up speaking it.
Of course, the book has been translated into different languages, but they say it's better to learn Arabic and read it in its original language. Since languages don't translate word for word, the meanings get lost in translation so they say it's best to read it in Arabic first.

It's such a.. throat-y? language, it's hard to learn. :lol: Well, it was hard for me, anyway..

[Manon]

yeah i know saadia :lol: (the troat-y language). i had lots of marocain friends when i was at primary school & also some at highschool. but its funny, because kara was the only one who can like...repeat dutch after me, because we use the g a lot (and you don't pronounce it like djee) and because she speaks arabic, and you use it there too, she could do it. other people can't :lol:

[zozo]

hey everyone :wave:

how are u all??

the quran has 604 pages and i understand it because my first language is the arabic and u all can learn it but frankly its not as easy as english!!

[Heather]

English is easy?

[Ashlyn]

It's 604 pages?

...how close is the English translation? I mean, if an English-speaker was interested in reading it, could they get a good impression of the truth?

[zozo]

hehe yeh heather the english is easy,dont u think so???

and ashlyn yeh u can read it in english but its not exactly like in arabic!!

when u read it and have any question or expression just ask me ok???

and yeh i was searching in all the quran books in my house and its not all 604 it depends on the book but there isnt a big difference between them!!

[Manon]

English is easy?

yeah
really really easy :lol:

[zozo]

we study the english language in schools and most of the students here consider it difficult but for me is very easy....even the teacher of the english language she loves me lol !!

[M&M Vermelha]

English is considered easy against many languagues.. its easier than Portuguese, for instance. An US citizen has much more trouble with learning portuguese than we do with learning english.. even your daily vocabulary is smaller.

I miss having English as a subject at school! lol Good times..

[danyjoncew]

English is easy?

What other way would a beast like me be able to speak it?

[Sarah AJ]

I have a Q\ for you Zara:) I herd that the Muslim pray 6 times a day but I am not shour is that right?

[zozo]

I have a Q\ for you Zara:) I herd that the Muslim pray 6 times a day but I am not shour is that right?


hey sarah :wave:

yeh for the sunni ppl they are 5 times not six but for us (shia) ppl we pray 3 times!!

[Sarah AJ]

hi :wave:
thanks Zahra :D for answering my Q\ :D:D

[zozo]

u r so welcome sarah:)
i hope that u have good thoughts about muslims:) well i mean the real muslims not the terror ppl :lol:

[Sarah AJ]

I really have good thoughts about muslims :D

in my school (Beverly hills high school) there is 3 saudi girls and they are really nice girls :D:D:D

[zozo]

aww thats good sarah :)

[Heather]

Question....

Why dont you eat pork?

[diamondroad17]

A friend once told me it's because pigs are dirty creatures.

[Heather]

But why are they considered dirty?

[Heather]

I guess no one knows why.... :lol:

[*Ashlee*]

Isnt it something about their blood lol or maybe im totally thinking something else

after googling the topic pigs are just seen as dirty creatures in general adn shouldnt be eaten. they are not good for the body, mind or soul so to eat one is to lesson ones self. Apparently it is medically proven that pork is a harmful diet.

how accurate this is, i dont know, but after a quick skim, this is what i found lol

[Heather]

Well, with Judaism, it dates back thousands of years, before refrigeration, where pork would easily spoil, so they would avoid it for health reasons.

I just wonder if the Islamic belief is rooted in the same. Because, honestly, I love pork chops...and health wise, there is no reason not to eat it.

But what is the religous reasoning behind it? Like why is it forbidden?

I understand why meat is forbidden for Catholics during Lent, but why is any pork forbidden to two of the three major monotheistic religions?

[*Zara*]

its considered forbidden to eat it, some things God made that we arent allowed to eat! it doesn't actually go into the reasoning on why they are not allowed bu they are considered dirty animals and we are not allowed to eat it.

[Heather]

Thanks, Zara.

Another question...what is Ramadan a celebration of?

[*Zara*]

no probs!! Ramadan is a holy month for us its when we fast for 30 days from the hours of sunrise to sunset (no food or water- nothing passes lips) we do it to feel closer to god and to understand what poor people g through with no food!! it makes us appreciate how much we have and how lucky we are this year ramadan was in september

then at the end of ramadan we have a huge celebration for completing the fasts and just all family come together and have huge feast its called Eid

[Heather]

My friend Sondos, brought food from the celebration last year, for me to take home to my family. What does Eid translate to in English?

[*Zara*]

we dont have a translation english ppl call it eid too!!

[Heather]

Ahh...ok...didnt know that. :lol:

[*Zara*]

hehe no probs here to help!!

[Heather]

What do you believe happens after death?

[OtH-&-Vm-Lover]

my sister, ex husband was from pakistan! he showed me alot of the islam-ic ways?
he does not eat pork. and i do not either, now!

in the bible. and in the koran? (i dont know if i spelled that right)
but he showed me where it says, you shouldnt eat any animal with hooven feet. like pig, horse. etc. he taught me A LOT! he went back to pakistan now!

i forget what he told me happens after death though! i will have to ask my older sister... she knows! ;)

[tommygirl887]

It's believed that after the end of the world, all of the souls of the dead people are to appear in front of God and be judged on what they did in this life. Based on that, you either go to heaven or hell.

[Heather]

Thanks, but the question was what happens after death, not after the end of the world.

[tommygirl887]

Right, but up until that day.. I guess you could say nothing really happens.
The deceased souls simply wait for the day of judgement. It's said that while in the grave though, the soul experiences a "taste" of whats to come. Like, if you're bound for Hell, then the time spent in your grave is suffering, where as if you're bound for Heaven, that time is peaceful.

[Heather]

I got an email from my friend, Sondos the other day (She's an Egyptian Muslim...born in Alexandria, raised in the US). I hadnt heard from her in months (she's in college...studying to be an engineer), so getting an email from her made my year...lol. When I told her about my dad, she was so upset...for my family, and that she wasnt there for the funeral.

My friendship with her really has changed my life. Because she is a true Muslim. And I have to admit, when I first met her, I was wary of her....post 9/11 mindset. But she is such a wonderful person, and has opened my eyes so much. I cherish our friendship.

Sorry, I just felt like sharing...lol. But it really means alot to me, especially in the state of the world today. To know that people like her are out there.

[Manon]

oh i got a message from an old friend the other day too
i know her from primary school and she messaged me on the sort of dutch facebook.
Its kind of sad though, because shes my age(19) and she says that she's married and has an 8 month old son....
(and yes, she's muslim, otherwise there would be no need posting this here :lol:)

[zozo]

hey guys
the muslim girl zahra just came back and she missing u all :D
i do really miss fanbolt i was so busy with my moving to london and here we had to have our own house and we got it one month ago but the internet just came here we needed to wait fot two weeks to activate it...anyway i missed this thread and heather am missing u soooooooo much and am missing everyone!!

and about what happenns after death as i know it depends on what have u done in your life.....if u are good your grave will be as a paradise but if not your grave gonna be as hell but its not really that simple its a little bit complicated i think about how many good or bad things u did and what was your intention and so....!

u know when i was in iraq i heard a story and actualy saw it and it affected me alot u know when someones die u cant find all the parts of his body after a while of his death because u know that creatures eats it and that hurts ofcourse but mohammed baqir al sadr u should read about him he was a great man and he was a scientist and a very muslim man but he was killed by saddam because he doesnt like scientists ppl anyway after years of his death they had to move his body twice to make him a good grave and the unbelievable thing is that his body is still complete and there wasnt any part missing or hurted by anything so that was like a great prove for me about islam and i really have many!

lol sorry i wrote sooo much .......such an annoying back lol :lol:

[OtH-&-Vm-Lover]

wow! thankyou. i am learning more everday!!! :) ^^^

[zozo]

^^aww thank u hun. :D its great to know the good and right things about islam i know def. everything in islam is good and every rule has reasons but i mean by the right things the true islam and its thoughts because recently u know some bad ppl under the name of islam they do terrors and such stupid rules wich isnt related to islam at all!

[Heather]

Hows married life treating you?

[zozo]

hello heather:wave:

well,we didnt make a wedding party here yet so some ppl consider us just engaged anyway we are living together now and yay we are sooooo happy we are living like friends not like two married ppl and we have alot of fun everyday so am feeling great but am just missing my family so much!!

[OtH-&-Vm-Lover]

I just talked, through IM, with my sisters ex-husband (from pakistan).
& it was just so amazing talking to him again. He hasnt been online in years.
He is one of the most amazing people i have ever talked to!!!!
He tells me soo much about The Koran, and the Muslim ways... :)
They are much like ours.
He is just one of the most inspiring people, and I have learned a lot from him!

& I respect the Muslim culture and their ways, mostly because of what he told me.
He made me realize there are other cultures out there, and we shouldn't just be close minded all of the time!

Just wanted to share this with you all! :)
It meant a lot to me. so, i hope i can pass on, the little of what i know & learned.

[zozo]

^^aww Thants so nice Misti....I am really glad of what I read,your sisters ex-husband must be a great muslim man because most of the muslims they dont give the right thought about islam and u must be a great person as well because u understand what he says and u respect the muslim culture!

we can chat online sometime if you want !

[OtH-&-Vm-Lover]

^^ Yea. sure, that sounds great!
& yes, he is a really great person.
He said to me before we ended our IM chat,
that I am like a very good sister to him.
It is just nice to talk about the islam culture with him.

[ky2here]

I'm pleasantly surprised with this thread. Good work. I expected ugliness, I'm glad my expectations were surpassed.

[zozo]

ok misti I will pm you my email sweetheart:D

ky2here :thank you but why did u expected ugliness?

[Heather]

Zahra...I miss talking to you!! :(

[zozo]

^^I miss talking to you more HEATHER!
but where are you? I dont see u on msn but did u get last pm??
how u been doing sweetheart?

[zealousheart]

I have a question that I honestly don't mean to make ugly and fits this topic.

Heather, you reacted badly in the Liberal thread when I said people should not care if Obama is Muslim. Why was that? Basically I mean, and anyone can answer...

Do you think the country is ready for a Muslim President? and Do you think prejudices against the Islamic/Muslims continue to be widespread?

[Manon]

as long as he's a good leader and does what's best for the country, his religion shouldn't matter. I mean, there are a ton of people in the US & all over the world who're not christian, so why would a christian president be that much better?

[nicnac]

well said
i wonder if the above statement was made due to the muslim extremists out there, do some beleive the fight against terror is a fight against islamists/muslims, if so i think they are ill informed

[Manon]

I'm pretty sure a ton of people are really dumb enough to think that

[Heather]

Do you think prejudices against the Islamic/Muslims continue to be widespread?
In a word...yes.

To be honest, when I first met my friend, Sondos, she made me nervous...and those we worked with nervous. Because 9/11 made an impression....and it IS difficult to differentiate between true Muslims that adhere to Mohammad's teachings, and those who are corrupting the religion.

How do you tell the difference? Is it even possible unless you know them on a personal level?

As far as the US President goes, religion is a non-issue for me. We have freedom of religion in the US. You can worship any God you want, or none at all, if that is your preference. But your first priority needs to be the safety and security of your citizens...even those who dont adhere to the same religion as you.

[Manon]

Most muslims are just normal people who have no intention of killing a ton of people. I used to have a lot of muslim friends before I moved, and 9/11 didn't change a THING about that. Neither did it change anything about what I think when I meet new muslim people. I don't judge them on what only a handful of them did/are doing. If you're starting like that, you can be suspicious of EVERY new person you meet, not just muslims

[Heather]

Personally, I didnt know any Muslims before 9/11. But since then, I have met both sides of the spectrum.

Was I wary? Yes.

But I judge people by who they are, not what they are. To this day, Sondos who is a Conservative Muslim, born in Egypt, is one of my best friends. She exemplifies what it is to be a Muslim while being an American in every sense of the word.

I need to make this clear.

I DO NOT HATE MUSLIMS....I HATE AL QUEDA AND THEIR EXTREMIST FOLLOWERS.

There is a profound difference.

[ky2here]

I work with a woman who spent a year in Lebanon for work. Her perspective on the Palestinian struggles really opened my eyes. I think our media can be alarmingly one-sided. I've since met many Muslim men and women and I'm learning to appreciate their culture and faith. The singing that accompanies the prayers is awesome and inspiring.

I wondered if the thread would be ugly when I saw the title because I underestimated the Fanbolt population. I expected xenophobic ignorant comments (and got at least one with the Obama/muslim reference).

[BellaBlack]

I think 9/11 made a lot of U.S. citizens weary but now things are more calm. Although since then discrimination has been on a rise but I for one don't hold anything against Muslims and would definately like to meet some offline because so far I've only met some online.

[nicnac]

i have a few muslim friends and think each one of them is absolutely great, just the same as i see the rest of my buddies, i will never find myself blaming a religion, only ignorance :)

[Heather]

Who is blaming religion, here? Did 9/11 cause a knee-jerk reaction in some Americans? Without a doubt.

Do those same Americans embrace the core ideals of the Muslim faith? Absolutely.

Carlos Mencia actually summed up my thoughts pretty well, but I wont post what he said, because some people (who arent even Muslim) would be offended by it.

And I really, really love how Zahra who is a Muslim, born and bred in the Middle East, has never been offended by me, and considers me a friend...while Westerners get offended by things I say in here.

I find that to be truly eye opening, to be honest.

[nicnac]

im not saying the blame lies with religion, but some are stereo-typing islamists/muslims due to the extremists out there all because they say they do these terrible acts in the name of religion.
and just to be clear, i am NOT one to stereotype :)

[Heather]

Because that is all that some of them KNOW. I know that I had a deeper understanding than others, post 9/11 because I studied Islam in college. And while there are things that I disagreed with, I never maligned the faith.

We all came from the same man...Abram.

But through my friendships with Muslims, I have gained a deeper respect for their faith. The faith of TRUE Muslims.

But in the world we live in, it is not always easy to differentiate between true Muslims, and those who have hijacked the religion.

That is what makes so many Americans uneasy.

[nicnac]

i would say thats what makes people uneasy

[Lorren]

I know that there are a lot of nice Moslems... in a typical week, I usually don't run into many if any, but I think that your average Moslem is like a lot of us, in that they don't really want to hurt anybody.

I have to wonder about the Islamic leadership though. There seems to be more violent Moslems in leadership positions (within their religion) than in most other religions that I can think of. This wouldn't be all... but I can think of a lot of Islamic nutcases in leadership, and the only really violent, hateful people that I can think of from other religions would be the Phelps family. I don't think that Phelps family has resorted to suicide bombing (yet), but they're pretty bad.

I would be concerned about a Moslem in a high governmental leadership position for the whole sleeper cell aspect. Terrorists can be pretty patient, and might recruit someone years ahead of time... get someone that seems respectable, encourage them to seek power, and only once they get into a position of power, does the person do any damage. While this wouldn't be the case with most Moslems, it is of some concern to me.

[Heather]

I agree...and while, I hate that I feel that way, I cant change my feelings. 9/11 left too great an impact.

[Lalune*]

but I can think of a lot of Islamic nutcases in leadership.

In my opinion Bush is a nutcase too, and he isnt a Muslim. So that these leaders were [as you call them] nutcases, has nothing to do with their religion.

Sometimes I dont see why we even have to discuss this all. I mean I dont see a jewish thread or a hindu thread. I see the Isla'm as a beautiful faith, and that there were some extremists who thought they were handling by Gods will, but obviously weren't, won't change that. People from other religions kill lots of people too, it's not just the muslims. But nowadays, I feel like they get the blame for all the violence in the world, which is not fair obviously.

[Heather]

This thread was started because some heated/insulting things were posted about Muslims in other threads.

So I created a thread where people could go to really learn what Islam is about, as opposed to what the fanatics preach.

[bragger166]

I have studied the Islamic faith and served in three different Islamic countries. if you read parts of the korran then you will see that it is not a bad religion at all and its one of peace, its just these radicals and fundamentalist that are causing the western world the oppression of fear and terror, how ever the korran is also very contradictive to a part that it says that any who dose not believe in the Islamic faith then they are infidels and must be vanished of this world to be judged by god.
this is where I think this fundamentalist are getting these wild radical visions that god wants rid of non believers, how ever I feel that punishment for those individuals must be at the maximum and the Islamic faith and Muslim community must work together and integrate with the rest of the world faiths and cultures to work together in the fight against Islamic fundamentalism and so the different communities can understand and live together

[OtH-&-Vm-Lover]

so this girl. that i have meant in school (college). she is very nice. she is christian, by choice, but her mother and father are muslim. She helps me a lot too. She kind of explains islam to me a bit more and better. I love college. You have the oppotunity to meet and talk to many other diverse people. It's so amazing.
I, too, think islam is not a bad religion. People tend to pre-judge, and discriminate... before they even know, or read into want the islamic culture is all about.

I personally know many non-denominational people, basically most of them do not per-judge cultures.... they are open to many beliefs and cultures!!!!
and I love this. I think it's great to be open to different views, and to understand where they are coming from.... but at the same time, you still have your own beliefs and ideas.

Ok, that is basically all I have wanted to say, or input... But, yea, i do not post much anymore... so i just thought i would share my thoughts! :)

[Senorjustino]

9/11 freaked me out and I started generalizing Muslims into one group, and it wasn't a positive one. Being a teacher however, I have had many Islamic students, and those students are some of the nicest, hard working and open minded people I know. Obviously, I was wrong to generalize. I have no problem with a Muslim president, and if Obama was a Muslim, that would not stop me from voting for him.

I do wish the Muslim street and more Muslim moderates would speak up against the violence of the extremists. It seems (and please correct me if I'm wrong about this) that a majority of Muslim anger only happens when the West does something wrong, or what is perceived to be an insult--like the Danish cartoons a couple of years back. Where was Muslim outrage when cartoonists were people murdered?

[bragger166]

yes I agree that the Islamic fundamentalists do retaliate when provoked by the west how ever there is extremists that are just taking the parts of the korran to the max thinking that the west has to be punished.

[Senorjustino]

I don't see why a cartoon of Mohamed is a provocation by the west People make fun of Jesus all the time in movies, television, and you don't see Christians running around--by and large--killing people.