04-16-2006, 12:22 PM
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Hollywood Star
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,280
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The Immigration Debate
I can't find a good article, but you can probably just deduce what it's about.
So... Illegal Immigrants: Amnesty or "Get out!"
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 Gone. Last edited by Andrew; 04-18-2006 at 10:56 PM. |
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04-16-2006, 12:32 PM
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#2 (permalink) |
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Hollywood Elite
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Credit for icon to loleiabits@LJ
Posts: 19,485
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hmmm ican't really discuss the situation in the US, but this is a huge topic in dutch politics right now...
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04-16-2006, 12:32 PM
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Hollywood Star
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Jeffersonian Institute
Posts: 9,489
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I really don't have a formed oppinion on that.
I think it depends on each case. I think it's wrong for people to immigrate and then be a burden to the local government, which happens a lot. But on the other hand, there are those who immigrate because of the awful conditions in their own country, and work hard in the country they go to. Of course it's not US's problem to help those people or anything, but I just think it's not right to send those hard-working people back to suffer in disgraceful situations. For the non-working people though, I think the solution would be sending them back to their homes.
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04-16-2006, 02:04 PM
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,179
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I think immigration is a big problem in most parts of the world. Obviously i cant speak for the USA but i can say a little about the situation in England. The fact is i think we dont need as many immigrants that are being let into our country. I mean they all want to go for a better life here but is that what they're getting, they live in the poorest of houses and have rubbish wages.
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04-18-2006, 10:56 PM
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#6 (permalink) |
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Hollywood Star
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,280
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Hmm... I edited the question; the issue is broader than I thought
 I too sort of have a mixed reaction to it. I don't think it's right to just say "assimilate completely or leave" since there those who do get by without doing so, all the while following the laws (like for example: paying taxes). But then there are those who abuse the system.
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04-19-2006, 05:17 PM
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Intern
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: tha ATL
Posts: 1,011
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I believe that I fall under the "Learn to speak American or get the hell out!" mentality... :|
Seriously, I assume we're talking about the US immigration debate and with regards to Mexican immigration. I'll first say that I'm sick and damn tired of Washington politicians (and this is a mostly Republican stance) making the claim that these immigrants are working jobs that "Americans refuse to work". This is nothing but propaganda and a complete and utter fallacy. I will bet any amount of money that I could drive a bus through any US town or city in the country with a huge sign saying "Construction workers needed. $9/hr." and, within minutes, will be able to fill that bus with legal, able-body Americans who are willing to work hard. All we need to do here is actually punish people who employ illegal immigrants and the problem is solved. You want to hire an illegal alien?- that'll be a $50,000 fine and/or 6 months to 1 year of jail time. That'll end the demand for illegal, cheap labor real damn quick. Before this country takes on millions and millions more of immigrants we need to make sure that every American who wants a job, can get one. If the demand for cheap, illegal labor is plugged, then immigrants have no reason to enter this country.
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04-23-2006, 08:54 PM
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Prime-Time Actor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,008
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Are we talking about assimilation or illegal immigration? I'm just getting a little confused from some of what's being said here. These concepts are two very different things.
I'll come back later to post my opinion regarding illegal immigrants. (I have a feeling that's the main issue of discussion here, despite the confusion.  Have to go now.
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04-23-2006, 09:09 PM
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#9 (permalink) |
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Intern
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: In my own little bubble.
Posts: 965
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What I find slightly confusing is that I read about illegal immigrants whom have been working in the US for years and have been paying taxes and I wonder how they are able to pay taxes if they're illegal. If you're paying taxes they can tell you're illegal, right? Or am I thinking too simplistically here?
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04-24-2006, 02:00 AM
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Prime-Time Actor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,008
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^ All the different computer systems are not that interconnected. (It's not like CSI where you can type in a name and you get every single detail existing about them.) I think this is a privacy thing. If everything is all on one system, you'll get people having access to certain types of information that they shouldn't be able to see. You find this a lot in hospitals. Different areas of the hospital has access only to certain types of patient information on different databases.
So, it's very easy to miss inconsistencies. For a lot of things, all you really need is a address to start off and you can slowly build your way up to other forms of IDs. For instance in Canada, I think you only need a birth certificate and a bill with your info on it to a get drivers license. I'll be back tomorrow to write my opinions on illegal immigrants. I do have quite a bit to say, but it's late now and I'm tired.
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04-24-2006, 06:01 PM
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Hollywood Star
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,280
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Quote:
Some illegal immigrants don't pay taxes. Then there are those who come to the US legally with a Visa. However, let's say they overstay the visit. I don't think it's a problem, as long as they still pay the taxes (or at least not an immediate problem... athough I'm sure about this). Quote:
But you're not really taking into consideration the countless variables. For one, it's naive to think every job pays that much. Some of them get paid below minimum wage, while working way over "full time." So to add onto that, let's say theoretically the "legal, able-body Americans" are given hard-labor jobs, under the same conditions and with the same wage. How long do you think they'll tolerate horrible working environments, extremely low revenue, and long hours? As a legal citizen, you have rights. As an illegal immigrant, you don't really have the right to refute, reason being either you don't know the language or you just can't because you need any source of income, not matter how little. Although I'm not saying "let the illegal immigrants suffer with these jobs and working conditions." Just pointing out this... how should I put it... "form of outsourcing" is a reality. It's a harsh reality, but imagine what'll happen to the already decaying economy when they aren't working the hard labor, low paying jobs. It sort of recalls the whole anti-Chinese riots back in the 18somethings.
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Gone. Last edited by Andrew; 04-24-2006 at 06:07 PM. |
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04-25-2006, 12:56 AM
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#12 (permalink) |
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Prime-Time Actor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,008
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Illegal immigrants. Generally, I tend to be a bit more lenient than this, but not so much here. I do think that if caught, illegal immigrants should be deported for various reasons.
1. The immigration policies are there for a reason. Sure, they can be incredibly flawed, but I do agree with their intended purpose. (A) Controlling population size. As a country, we can only support a certain number of people. So, we need to be a bit picky as a result, otherwise we'd have even more people living in insanitary conditions. (B) Fulfilling the country's needs. All countries have specific needs. Through immigration, we can fulfill these needs. (However, I will admit that immigration policies are very misguided here. They say we need doctors, lawyers, etc. We don't. We need people who are willing to fill jobs in the secondary labour market and don't expect more because of their education background. Otherwise, we're just wasting their talent and our time.) 2. Allowing illegal immigrants to stay makes a very big statement. "We're willing to take everyone and anyone." Many countries pride themselves on immigration and likes to give off the impression that all are welcome. That's not true and we can't do that. As stated earlier, our country is only so big and can only support so many people. Yes, life isn't fair. 3. It disrespects those who go through the difficult process of immigrating legally. I have a friend who recently became a Canadian citizen and she was really happy about that. Why? Because getting that status was a long and hard process for her. (She had to apply twice because she turned 18 before she could take the test the the first time around as a minor.) 4. Human trafficking. I hate this. I really do. Traffickers exploit people by playing on their dreams of a better future. They get them to pay a disgusting amount to sneak them into a country and they don't even do it through sanitary conditions. On top of that, many traffickers suddenly turn around, claim that their fee is higher and make them work hard labour in lousy conditions for years at a time. (If they don't, their family overseas is harmed.) I'm not completely sure if the deportation would actually curb this, but I think it would make a bit of statement. Kill the flawed idea that immigration would definitely lead to better things for everyone. That's not always the case. 5. This is going to sound childish, but illegal immigration is just plain rude to the country. Immigration is supposed to involve an invitation. You're not supposed to just plop your bags down here and suddenly decide to set up shop without permission. Despite my arguments here, I don't entirely blame the immigrants for their actions. The way in which immigrants are selected for entry is very flawed. I don't think it appropriately considers the labour needs of this country. If you've noticed, many illegal immigrants are working in jobs from the secondary labour market, which needs filling. On top of that, we're getting professionals coming in who can't find work within their profession because they lack the appropriate background (appropriate as in local experience/education) to beat out other applicants for the jobs. (Also, we have the people to fill these positions.) So, then why is it that we're letting in so many professional and so few labourers? (Actually, I do know why. It makes a country look better if we let in the most educated. Even if they do end up working in donut shops instead of science labs.)
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04-29-2006, 10:58 PM
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Prime-Time Actor
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: I still l0ve Ivan but, I have a crush on D0minic & am in love with Link larkin not really Zac just Link :D & I havent made art in a year & boy am i rusty
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I feel for immigrants I do but My parents are Haitian and my aunt and her children came here legally. She applied for a Green card before I was born and yet she did not receive one until June 2005 when she applied in '89. While there was a Haitian revolution and the country was in complete chaos. Haitians risked their lives crossing over into Florida. What did the governments do , They sent them back. If you are going to allow illegal immigrants, allow them all. I'm sorry until mercy to everyone I'm against it
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05-03-2006, 05:43 PM
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#14 (permalink) |
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Hollywood Star
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: in tha Chi-Town
Posts: 6,879
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we were having this debate at school and lets just say i pissed off a couple immagrants at our school when i said "But if you can't speak english why the hell would you come here?"
cuz they like couldnt speak english i think illegal immagrants should leave im all for legal immagration but why break our laws to get into our country?
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05-04-2006, 01:09 AM
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Prime-Time Actor
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Quote:
2. Where else is there for them to immigrate to? Many of the countries that you can immigrate into and have the potential to live comfortably in do have English as an officiallanguage. If not English, than the official languages are often European. So, there isn't really much variety available when you don't speak English as a first language.
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Last edited by Webeh; 05-04-2006 at 08:19 PM. |
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